6 ms·

The other component is that once they have the phone number, they can do anything with it they want, unless you leave the network. E.g. facebook once did the sa

by est31 8y ago

The other component is that once they have the phone number, they can do anything with it they want, unless you leave the network. E.g. facebook once did the same, they required phone numbers "for two factor authentication". They promised to not use the numbers for anything else. A few years later they started sending SMS spam to users about what their friends did on facebook, and now facebook users can enter the number and the associated accounts show up... even though the number was supposed to be only for two factor auth. Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform.

LeifCarrotson 8y ago
> Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform. That's not even enough anymore. You also have to make sure that every one of your contacts do not upload their address book to conveniently find friends like you who may or may not be on the network. And that they don't tag you in images, events, etc. You're an entry in the Facebook database, whether you have or have had an active profile or not.
- ams6110 8y ago
  This is why you should block ads and trackers even if you're not a Facebook user. I have blocked all their domains in my hosts file also.
  - quakeguy 8y ago
    Would you mind sharing the hosts file for blocking FB and all of their domains? I've done this too in the past, but my list seems outdated for a while now.
    - gcb0 8y ago
      https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/
    - rux 8y ago
      If you don't mind a bit more config to tune to your precise preferences, I'd highly recommend https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts
  - renholder 8y ago
    >This is why you should block ads and trackers even if you're not a Facebook user. I have blocked all their domains in my hosts file also. ...but that's such a myopic view of the problem. Facebook has this data. There's an entire market, intentionally kept from the public, that specifically deals in the selling and trading of profile data. This is why the concept of "shadow profiles" is important. Let's say I have three friends who are on Facebook and I am not (which I'm not). Those three friends upload my contact details to Facebook and, from these three data points, Facebook can derive certain assumptions: Sex from my name. General age-range based on my friends. General occupation (let's say all three are co-workers or previous co-workers) General interests based on their interests. etc. So, now Facebook has an ad-targeting profile of me. All they need to do to get more information on me, regardless of I'm blocking their specific domains, is to purchase correlating ad-profiles on what I'll call the advertising market. So, my credit card purchases, my Google search history, etc. can all be correlated back down into this one shadow profile that Facebook holds on me and this can, in turn, be used to target ads to my friends. Not only that, but if I ever do sign-up for Facebook, they can immediately start targeting ads to me. (read: I'm not a net-advertising loss for being a "new user".) I'm not saying that you shouldn't block Facebook domains but I think that, in the overall scheme of things, it's tossing a drop of water onto a raging bush fire.
- thinkloop 8y ago
  I'm surprised that no nation or union (ie EU) has fought this. If people exchange phone numbers, are they also giving each other implicit rights to share them with anyone else? If not, shouldn't platforms that enable this en mass be reprimanded for it? It is currently impossible to remain anonymous, regardless of whether you participate in the system or not. In my case, given the density of my network on social media, and their propensity to fall for dark patterns that siphon private information - had I never owned a computer and lived off the grid, all the major tech companies would still know my: name, age, address, contact info, hometown, family members, income bracket, ethnicity, general dna (many family members did dna tests), and more. Shouldn't I have a say in any of that? Shouldn't things like address book importing be restricted/illegal?
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    > I'm surprised that no nation or union (ie EU) has fought this. Why would any politician fight this? It's a platform they all use to gain/sustain popularity, and it's the official national communication channel for the US.
- black-tea 8y ago
  Don't forget WhatsApp uploads your entire phonebook by default.
  - doubletgl 8y ago
    At least not on iOS, it needs to ask for permission first.
lskopwol 8y ago
Actually, fb still requires the phone number, if you try to open up a few accounts in succession. You can't use throwaway numbers or Google Voice numbers either. So it's actually pretty hard these days to open a Fb (Or Hotmail or Gmail) account without a legit (cellphone) number.
- reshie 8y ago
  throwaway numbers can mean many things even a 5 dollar sim. some services even let you change phone numbers on a whim cell numbers are mobile in more than one way and very easy.
  - 1over137 8y ago
    Many places I've been won't let you buy a SIM without showing id.
    - bigiain 8y ago
      Yeah. I think while not nation-state-secure, you can still improve your PII exposure to Facebook/Twitter/Google et al by buying/activating a SIM/phone-number and only using it one time for the purpose of creating an account. I don't _think_ Twitter or Facebook are doing backroom deals with every prepaid sim vendor to be able to tie that phone number back the the identity used to register the sim card. I wouldn't suggest you use this to register your Dream Market vendor account, but I doubt you'll end up with targeted advertising based on your other real-world web/app behaviour based just on the ID provided for a single-use burner SIM...
    - enedil 8y ago
      Yeah, what's the problem here? Presumably Facebook won't get the data on the legal owner of the number.
    - medof 8y ago
      > Many places I've been won't let you buy a SIM without showing id. You don't need to show any ID in Europe to buy non-contract phone number. You can go into most stores and get free or pay 1-5 euro for a phone number.
sleepyhead 8y ago
> The other component is that once they have the phone number, they can do anything with it they want Unless you are an EU-citizen.
1024core 8y ago
> Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform. For some platforms, even this is not an option. Case in point: LinkedIn (owned by Microsoft). I get "friend" suggestions about a friend that I know is not on LinkedIn. He's absolutely social-media averse, and would never be on LinkedIn (or FB, for that matter). But LinkedIn continues to claim that I can connect with him. How did they get his email address? Because some third person (who emailed both of us) probably shared his contacts with LinkedIn.

by est31 8y ago

LeifCarrotson 8y ago

> Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform. That's not even enough anymore. You also have to make sure that every one of your contacts do not upload their address book to conveniently find friends like you who may or may not be on the network. And that they don't tag you in images, events, etc. You're an entry in the Facebook database, whether you have or have had an active profile or not.

ams6110 8y ago
This is why you should block ads and trackers even if you're not a Facebook user. I have blocked all their domains in my hosts file also.
- quakeguy 8y ago
  Would you mind sharing the hosts file for blocking FB and all of their domains? I've done this too in the past, but my list seems outdated for a while now.
  - gcb0 8y ago
    https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/
  - rux 8y ago
    If you don't mind a bit more config to tune to your precise preferences, I'd highly recommend https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts
- renholder 8y ago
  >This is why you should block ads and trackers even if you're not a Facebook user. I have blocked all their domains in my hosts file also. ...but that's such a myopic view of the problem. Facebook has this data. There's an entire market, intentionally kept from the public, that specifically deals in the selling and trading of profile data. This is why the concept of "shadow profiles" is important. Let's say I have three friends who are on Facebook and I am not (which I'm not). Those three friends upload my contact details to Facebook and, from these three data points, Facebook can derive certain assumptions: Sex from my name. General age-range based on my friends. General occupation (let's say all three are co-workers or previous co-workers) General interests based on their interests. etc. So, now Facebook has an ad-targeting profile of me. All they need to do to get more information on me, regardless of I'm blocking their specific domains, is to purchase correlating ad-profiles on what I'll call the advertising market. So, my credit card purchases, my Google search history, etc. can all be correlated back down into this one shadow profile that Facebook holds on me and this can, in turn, be used to target ads to my friends. Not only that, but if I ever do sign-up for Facebook, they can immediately start targeting ads to me. (read: I'm not a net-advertising loss for being a "new user".) I'm not saying that you shouldn't block Facebook domains but I think that, in the overall scheme of things, it's tossing a drop of water onto a raging bush fire.
thinkloop 8y ago
I'm surprised that no nation or union (ie EU) has fought this. If people exchange phone numbers, are they also giving each other implicit rights to share them with anyone else? If not, shouldn't platforms that enable this en mass be reprimanded for it? It is currently impossible to remain anonymous, regardless of whether you participate in the system or not. In my case, given the density of my network on social media, and their propensity to fall for dark patterns that siphon private information - had I never owned a computer and lived off the grid, all the major tech companies would still know my: name, age, address, contact info, hometown, family members, income bracket, ethnicity, general dna (many family members did dna tests), and more. Shouldn't I have a say in any of that? Shouldn't things like address book importing be restricted/illegal?
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > I'm surprised that no nation or union (ie EU) has fought this. Why would any politician fight this? It's a platform they all use to gain/sustain popularity, and it's the official national communication channel for the US.
black-tea 8y ago
Don't forget WhatsApp uploads your entire phonebook by default.
- doubletgl 8y ago
  At least not on iOS, it needs to ask for permission first.

lskopwol 8y ago

Actually, fb still requires the phone number, if you try to open up a few accounts in succession. You can't use throwaway numbers or Google Voice numbers either. So it's actually pretty hard these days to open a Fb (Or Hotmail or Gmail) account without a legit (cellphone) number.

reshie 8y ago
throwaway numbers can mean many things even a 5 dollar sim. some services even let you change phone numbers on a whim cell numbers are mobile in more than one way and very easy.
- 1over137 8y ago
  Many places I've been won't let you buy a SIM without showing id.
  - bigiain 8y ago
    Yeah. I think while not nation-state-secure, you can still improve your PII exposure to Facebook/Twitter/Google et al by buying/activating a SIM/phone-number and only using it one time for the purpose of creating an account. I don't _think_ Twitter or Facebook are doing backroom deals with every prepaid sim vendor to be able to tie that phone number back the the identity used to register the sim card. I wouldn't suggest you use this to register your Dream Market vendor account, but I doubt you'll end up with targeted advertising based on your other real-world web/app behaviour based just on the ID provided for a single-use burner SIM...
  - enedil 8y ago
    Yeah, what's the problem here? Presumably Facebook won't get the data on the legal owner of the number.
  - medof 8y ago
    > Many places I've been won't let you buy a SIM without showing id. You don't need to show any ID in Europe to buy non-contract phone number. You can go into most stores and get free or pay 1-5 euro for a phone number.

sleepyhead 8y ago

> The other component is that once they have the phone number, they can do anything with it they want Unless you are an EU-citizen.

1024core 8y ago

> Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform. For some platforms, even this is not an option. Case in point: LinkedIn (owned by Microsoft). I get "friend" suggestions about a friend that I know is not on LinkedIn. He's absolutely social-media averse, and would never be on LinkedIn (or FB, for that matter). But LinkedIn continues to claim that I can connect with him. How did they get his email address? Because some third person (who emailed both of us) probably shared his contacts with LinkedIn.