7 ms·

I know this is not the time or place but Brexit is having some unusual side effects - while the entire political and advisory class of government is distracted

I know this is not the time or place but Brexit is having some unusual side effects - while the entire political and advisory class of government is distracted for three years, a number of "I am surprised that got through" things have been happening - moves towards fighting tax havens in the City, and things like this ... just ... unusual

HenryBemis 8y ago
While our politicians are finger-pointing to save their skins, progress (and capitalism) doesn't stop, it matches on. I was reading that Shell UK is making a change to the greener, which scares me because big oil is NEVER green friendly unless they want something more sinister.
- mhh__ 8y ago
  Or more realistically, they're hedging their bets: Business's exist to make money not CO2, Green power is becoming increasingly profitable/in demand
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  They're still spending millions lobbying on the wrong side of the argument, so getting greener from a starting point trillions overdrawn. I tend to see any green tinged events as greenwashing. Still, hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised a few times.
- reitzensteinm 8y ago
  Oil companies aren't evil, they just care about nothing but the bottom line. Once that is served by moving to green energy, they'll simply shift over at whatever speed makes the most business sense. Unless it's a tiny PR stunt, R&D project or mandated by regulation, you should instead take it as a sign that for the first time green energy in a free market is competitive at scale in certain situations, even without accounting for externalities. That's fantastic news.
  - haser_au 8y ago
    This.
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    Oil companies do not care more about their bottom line than wind or solar does. The green lobby is just as strong if not stronger relative to its age. Solar and wind are neither clean nor cheap, but they do have a lot of policial backing. I know it's not a popular thing to say here it's none the less true.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      When comparing wind or solar with oil or gas, in what sense is wind or solar not cleaner than oil or gas?
      - ThomPete 8y ago
        i am not comparing them as such i am saying that they arent as green as people think. To actually produce them is one thing, they require huge areas of land to produce, they are unreliable meaningb they still need oil and gas and coal for when they dont work, solar uses rare earth metals, they can only be used for one thing and they currently only produce around 1% of our needs. They are great as supporting sources of energy but they arent actually solutions to our fundamental energy needs. And they arent as cheap as claimed since production, installation and decommissioning normally isnt factored into the cost when you see comparisons. The greentech industry is every bit as bottomline focused as the oil industry and it is so with an inferior product mostly pushed through by political lobbying not on market terms.
  - mistrial9 8y ago
    The young'ish CEO of .. Dutch Royal Shell (?) .. one of the majors .. was overtaken by an internal coup and kicked out, for embracing green energy openly.. in the early 2000s. It was quite well documented.
- haser_au 8y ago
  Shell has a legal obligation to make money for shareholders. Shareholders are divesting from fossil fuel companies because (a) they're too high risk, and (b) shareholders want a greener future. That's all it comes down to. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/28/shell-doubles-green-spending-vows-halve-carbon-footprint https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/28/shell-doubl...
- salty_biscuits 8y ago
  All the big oil companies did a lot of photovoltaic research in the 70's. I think it might have been exxon who were one of the earliest players. I don't think it was sinister then, just a diversification into "energy" companies, especially with the oil crises going on back then.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
We have the unusual position of a government that in any previous parliament would have fallen. The Prime Minister would have resigned on the first defeat and I think we'd already have a new government elected by now. A better government seems unlikely, but probably one with a majority. Thanks to the badly designed fixed-term parliament act government is effectively stuck there, powerless, breaking records for scale of defeat, and utterly discredited. Thanks once again to Cameron then - for letting the LibDems break something they didn't understand. The popular has a chance, while the rest is ignored as government fails to consider anything but Brexit, and can't even deliver that. It would be unbelievable in House of Cards, or Yes, Minister.
- lifeisstillgood 8y ago
  I was (unusually for me) not discussing the specifics of Brexit, just that once you take away the politicians usual oversight, many unusual, perhaps radical, positive things seem to happen. Sadly the lesson is not to get rid of the politicians completely.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    In some ways it's more like how politics used to be. Before entire parties were expected to be perfectly on message for every minor policy. Not exactly independent, but a little freedom to act and think. The message may not be to get rid of politicians, but perhaps that a major weakening of the party system is called for. Getting rid of career politicians might be a good move though. Course I wouldn't expect any party with realistic chance of government to favour either those or PR. I can hope though... :)
7952 8y ago
The conservatives have actually been pretty good on Opendata for quite a while. They made lots of mapping and lidar data available.

HenryBemis 8y ago

While our politicians are finger-pointing to save their skins, progress (and capitalism) doesn't stop, it matches on. I was reading that Shell UK is making a change to the greener, which scares me because big oil is NEVER green friendly unless they want something more sinister.

mhh__ 8y ago
Or more realistically, they're hedging their bets: Business's exist to make money not CO2, Green power is becoming increasingly profitable/in demand
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
They're still spending millions lobbying on the wrong side of the argument, so getting greener from a starting point trillions overdrawn. I tend to see any green tinged events as greenwashing. Still, hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised a few times.
reitzensteinm 8y ago
Oil companies aren't evil, they just care about nothing but the bottom line. Once that is served by moving to green energy, they'll simply shift over at whatever speed makes the most business sense. Unless it's a tiny PR stunt, R&D project or mandated by regulation, you should instead take it as a sign that for the first time green energy in a free market is competitive at scale in certain situations, even without accounting for externalities. That's fantastic news.
- haser_au 8y ago
  This.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  Oil companies do not care more about their bottom line than wind or solar does. The green lobby is just as strong if not stronger relative to its age. Solar and wind are neither clean nor cheap, but they do have a lot of policial backing. I know it's not a popular thing to say here it's none the less true.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    When comparing wind or solar with oil or gas, in what sense is wind or solar not cleaner than oil or gas?
    - ThomPete 8y ago
      i am not comparing them as such i am saying that they arent as green as people think. To actually produce them is one thing, they require huge areas of land to produce, they are unreliable meaningb they still need oil and gas and coal for when they dont work, solar uses rare earth metals, they can only be used for one thing and they currently only produce around 1% of our needs. They are great as supporting sources of energy but they arent actually solutions to our fundamental energy needs. And they arent as cheap as claimed since production, installation and decommissioning normally isnt factored into the cost when you see comparisons. The greentech industry is every bit as bottomline focused as the oil industry and it is so with an inferior product mostly pushed through by political lobbying not on market terms.
- mistrial9 8y ago
  The young'ish CEO of .. Dutch Royal Shell (?) .. one of the majors .. was overtaken by an internal coup and kicked out, for embracing green energy openly.. in the early 2000s. It was quite well documented.
haser_au 8y ago
Shell has a legal obligation to make money for shareholders. Shareholders are divesting from fossil fuel companies because (a) they're too high risk, and (b) shareholders want a greener future. That's all it comes down to. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/28/shell-doubles-green-spending-vows-halve-carbon-footprint https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/28/shell-doubl...
salty_biscuits 8y ago
All the big oil companies did a lot of photovoltaic research in the 70's. I think it might have been exxon who were one of the earliest players. I don't think it was sinister then, just a diversification into "energy" companies, especially with the oil crises going on back then.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

We have the unusual position of a government that in any previous parliament would have fallen. The Prime Minister would have resigned on the first defeat and I think we'd already have a new government elected by now. A better government seems unlikely, but probably one with a majority. Thanks to the badly designed fixed-term parliament act government is effectively stuck there, powerless, breaking records for scale of defeat, and utterly discredited. Thanks once again to Cameron then - for letting the LibDems break something they didn't understand. The popular has a chance, while the rest is ignored as government fails to consider anything but Brexit, and can't even deliver that. It would be unbelievable in House of Cards, or Yes, Minister.

lifeisstillgood 8y ago
I was (unusually for me) not discussing the specifics of Brexit, just that once you take away the politicians usual oversight, many unusual, perhaps radical, positive things seem to happen. Sadly the lesson is not to get rid of the politicians completely.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  In some ways it's more like how politics used to be. Before entire parties were expected to be perfectly on message for every minor policy. Not exactly independent, but a little freedom to act and think. The message may not be to get rid of politicians, but perhaps that a major weakening of the party system is called for. Getting rid of career politicians might be a good move though. Course I wouldn't expect any party with realistic chance of government to favour either those or PR. I can hope though... :)

7952 8y ago

The conservatives have actually been pretty good on Opendata for quite a while. They made lots of mapping and lidar data available.