6 ms·

Management is not for everyone - you could always go back to an IC role/track

maxxxxx 8y ago
In most companies unfortunately the only way to move higher in pay is the management route. I know there are exceptions but in general you quickly hit a pay ceiling as IC.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  While this is true, so what? If you are miserable in a manager role, you're probably not going to advance that much in the manager track, because the higher up you go the more miserable you are likely to be. I've found in general the pay differential between an upper level IC and a senior manager/director role is about 25%. So the question is whether you would (a) rather be in a job where you are miserable and stressed out but making 25% more, or (b) in a job you enjoy with much less stress but making 25% less. I say the above all from personal experience. I am glad I spent my 3+ years in management, and while I think I learned to be fairly good at it, I was miserable and I am certainly MUCH happier now that I've stepped off that train.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    In my company the potential to make more as manager is much greater than 25%. And you have the chance to move further up which is extremely rare for ICs.
    - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
      > And you have the chance to move further up which is extremely rare for ICs. Agreed, but my point above was that if you are not happy as a manager, you're probably going to be really unhappy as a senior manager, approaching severe depression/anxiety as a director, and ready to jump off a bridge as a VP. If you're just going on that track for the pay potential, your happiness level is going to be worse the higher you go up and the more divorced you are from tasks (like programming) that you enjoy.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        I can take a lot of pain if the money is right so the decision is not that easy.
  - opportune 8y ago
    In my experience you make a fraction as an upper IC vs director. I think an upper level IC (12-25 years experience) makes about $250k-350k/year. Senior managers making about $600k. Directors are probably making at least $1mm/year
    - kelnos 8y ago
      That greatly depends on company. I'm a fairly-senior IC (~15 years experience) and make more than your high end for your "upper level IC".
      - opportune 8y ago
        Yeah, this company is in Seattle so it doesn't hit the bay area highs. I know at Google these same people would probably be making almost double.
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      I don't think directors make anywhere near that much. A director is going to max out ~600K all in. Reference: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&track=Software%20Engineering%20Manager https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&tr... To get to 1M you'll need to be a VP.
      - opportune 8y ago
        Hmm, I don't think they properly translated all of those titles. Director is supposed to be above GM/GPM/GEM at Microsoft. I guess what I meant by director is what levels.fyi labels as "VP"

In most companies unfortunately the only way to move higher in pay is the management route. I know there are exceptions but in general you quickly hit a pay ceiling as IC.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
While this is true, so what? If you are miserable in a manager role, you're probably not going to advance that much in the manager track, because the higher up you go the more miserable you are likely to be. I've found in general the pay differential between an upper level IC and a senior manager/director role is about 25%. So the question is whether you would (a) rather be in a job where you are miserable and stressed out but making 25% more, or (b) in a job you enjoy with much less stress but making 25% less. I say the above all from personal experience. I am glad I spent my 3+ years in management, and while I think I learned to be fairly good at it, I was miserable and I am certainly MUCH happier now that I've stepped off that train.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  In my company the potential to make more as manager is much greater than 25%. And you have the chance to move further up which is extremely rare for ICs.
  - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
    > And you have the chance to move further up which is extremely rare for ICs. Agreed, but my point above was that if you are not happy as a manager, you're probably going to be really unhappy as a senior manager, approaching severe depression/anxiety as a director, and ready to jump off a bridge as a VP. If you're just going on that track for the pay potential, your happiness level is going to be worse the higher you go up and the more divorced you are from tasks (like programming) that you enjoy.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      I can take a lot of pain if the money is right so the decision is not that easy.
- opportune 8y ago
  In my experience you make a fraction as an upper IC vs director. I think an upper level IC (12-25 years experience) makes about $250k-350k/year. Senior managers making about $600k. Directors are probably making at least $1mm/year
  - kelnos 8y ago
    That greatly depends on company. I'm a fairly-senior IC (~15 years experience) and make more than your high end for your "upper level IC".
    - opportune 8y ago
      Yeah, this company is in Seattle so it doesn't hit the bay area highs. I know at Google these same people would probably be making almost double.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    I don't think directors make anywhere near that much. A director is going to max out ~600K all in. Reference: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&track=Software%20Engineering%20Manager https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook,Microsoft&tr... To get to 1M you'll need to be a VP.
    - opportune 8y ago
      Hmm, I don't think they properly translated all of those titles. Director is supposed to be above GM/GPM/GEM at Microsoft. I guess what I meant by director is what levels.fyi labels as "VP"