5 ms·

You're 9 weeks in? It takes months to get used to it. > But most days, something will happen among the team, where, before I leave, I'll realize "That wouldn'

You're 9 weeks in? It takes months to get used to it. > But most days, something will happen among the team, where, before I leave, I'll realize "That wouldn't have happened here before you rose up the ranks. You've made all of these people's lives better." and it'll bounce me back a bit. This is what you need to focus on. Everyone has parts of a job they don't like. What you described here is the reason you're a manager.

crescentfresh 8y ago
I don't think he's 9 weeks into a managerial position, I think those things he listed are just the things he's been doing for the last 9 weeks, sounds like they're hiring right now.
hcnews 8y ago
He's just saying what he has done in the last 9 weeks. Overall experience seems higher to me. (Using he in the gender agnostic way).
ep103 8y ago
9 weeks into this hiring sprint. Maybe a few more depending on how you count. ~2-3ish years into management, again, depending on how we count. I agree with your second statement. I suppose what I'm trying to vocalize is the following: When working on code, the work itself is fun. Coding is enjoyable. That means an 8-10 hour day is largely 8-10 hours of enjoyment. With management, those ~8-9 hours are no longer enjoyable. The end result is extremely fulfilling and meaningful, much more so than code... but I'm genuinely not finding the actual work of management enjoyable, quite the opposite. I think I need a way to find the managerial aspect itself enjoyable, otherwise it feels like light suffering for several hours each day in return for the overall health of the rest of the team. And as much as I like these people, that's not long-term sustainable. I think the way forward might be to fully commit to the positive aspect you highlighted. To consciously attempt to keep in mind the meaning and enjoyment that comes from the making of connections and improvements of the people around me. I'd love it if a more experienced manager could chime in here and speak to whether or not that really can be enough to power one through the endless meetings, excel reports and politics given time. And I agree with what other commenters have said. It is simply not possible to be a good manager, while attempting to stay relevant in technology. There simply isn't enough time each day for me to balance my life, keep up to date with code, and learn the management skills I need to improve on. But that means consciously giving up on staying technically relevant, in this competitive industry..... for a new role which day to day, I'm not finding day-to-day enjoyable. That's a huge leap of faith, that quite honestly, I find very scary to take. Meanwhile, it seems similarly risky to just give in and go back to pure code, and give up on this managerial aspect. I clearly do have an aptitude for it, it clearly is rewarding, and getting the opportunity to climb this high simply does not happen every day. Hence, the feeling of being in need of advice, and somewhat stuck.
- chillydawg 8y ago
  The recruitment is definitely a killer. If at all possible, outsource as much of that as you can. To internal recruiters, to engineers in your team, to external recruiters, to a pa you might want to hire to do bits of it.
- sailfast 8y ago
  Have you tried diving into some gnarly bugs or some off-critical-path items that would help you stay in the code while doing these other things? A manager’s job is typically about building a team as their product, but it’s also important to stay connected to the technical part - both for love and for relevance / humility. Have you asked (if available) someone to help with recruiting? Maybe offload some of the nitty gritty things that you aren’t adding value on to someone that can, or somebody that works for you and is interested in that side of the work? To enjoy every minute of the day requires understanding why you are doing it - to build your team. Connecting back to what it will get you may help. If you’re stuck doing stuff you don’t want to do because somebody above you “said so” (the curse of middle management) then that may make things a lot harder but you may also talk to them to help shape your role into what you want for what they need.
  - fhbdukfrh 8y ago
    I don't think a manager should be grabbing tough bugs unless there is no time sensitivity (so why are you addressing them?) as they never have enough time to complete them and become a blocker. I think your best bet is to do strategic technical spikes and as an output identify deeper areas for your engineers to pursue.
- groby_b 8y ago
  I'm managing in one form or another for ~12 years, so... somewhat experienced at least, but take with a grain of salt. Does it get better? Maybe. That really depends on what you like. If you find joy in, essentially, coaching & teaching, it's a great job. If you enjoy politics, you'll be OK. If you get your joy from creating, it's much harder. You still create, as a manager. Teams. Processes. Cultures. All things that have incredibly long feedback cycles, nowhere close to writing some code, running it, iterating. I've currently got things in flight that (hopefully) will pay off three years from now. There is no instant success. That said, all the things where I as a dev said "Why on earth are we doing this stupid thing"? I get to fix those. Or, alternatively, to learn why it's not quite so stupid as I thought. Politics will happen, though. Wherever humans interact, there are politics. There are healthy levels, and dysfunctional levels. (Everybody lobbies for their project, but there are plenty of lines they shouldn't cross) Excel sheets will happen, too. After text docs and e-mail, it's your most important tool. (And many of us who came from tech nourish their yearning for building things by scripting the hell out of them, because that's all we get to code) But again, if you like interacting with people, at some point, a switch will flip. You'll have a day of back-to-back meetings about genuinely interesting efforts, and you'll walk out of it thinking "Damn, I can't believe they pay me for just spending a whole day chatting about cool stuff". You'll see the first of your reports stepping into a leadership role. You see a multi-year, multi-team effort come to fruition and can honestly say "would've failed without me bringing the teams together" So yes, it can be enjoyable. It depends on what you want, though. There's nothing wrong with doing a management stint and going back to coding after a few years, either. A lot of front-line managers bounce back and forth between the two sides. Hope that's at least remotely helpful. EDIT: Forgot to say that your place sounds... not quite healthy. It might be a question of finding a company that actually values managing and doesn't have it degenerate into total soul suck. They do exist.

crescentfresh 8y ago

I don't think he's 9 weeks into a managerial position, I think those things he listed are just the things he's been doing for the last 9 weeks, sounds like they're hiring right now.

hcnews 8y ago

He's just saying what he has done in the last 9 weeks. Overall experience seems higher to me. (Using he in the gender agnostic way).

ep103 8y ago

9 weeks into this hiring sprint. Maybe a few more depending on how you count. ~2-3ish years into management, again, depending on how we count. I agree with your second statement. I suppose what I'm trying to vocalize is the following: When working on code, the work itself is fun. Coding is enjoyable. That means an 8-10 hour day is largely 8-10 hours of enjoyment. With management, those ~8-9 hours are no longer enjoyable. The end result is extremely fulfilling and meaningful, much more so than code... but I'm genuinely not finding the actual work of management enjoyable, quite the opposite. I think I need a way to find the managerial aspect itself enjoyable, otherwise it feels like light suffering for several hours each day in return for the overall health of the rest of the team. And as much as I like these people, that's not long-term sustainable. I think the way forward might be to fully commit to the positive aspect you highlighted. To consciously attempt to keep in mind the meaning and enjoyment that comes from the making of connections and improvements of the people around me. I'd love it if a more experienced manager could chime in here and speak to whether or not that really can be enough to power one through the endless meetings, excel reports and politics given time. And I agree with what other commenters have said. It is simply not possible to be a good manager, while attempting to stay relevant in technology. There simply isn't enough time each day for me to balance my life, keep up to date with code, and learn the management skills I need to improve on. But that means consciously giving up on staying technically relevant, in this competitive industry..... for a new role which day to day, I'm not finding day-to-day enjoyable. That's a huge leap of faith, that quite honestly, I find very scary to take. Meanwhile, it seems similarly risky to just give in and go back to pure code, and give up on this managerial aspect. I clearly do have an aptitude for it, it clearly is rewarding, and getting the opportunity to climb this high simply does not happen every day. Hence, the feeling of being in need of advice, and somewhat stuck.

chillydawg 8y ago
The recruitment is definitely a killer. If at all possible, outsource as much of that as you can. To internal recruiters, to engineers in your team, to external recruiters, to a pa you might want to hire to do bits of it.
sailfast 8y ago
Have you tried diving into some gnarly bugs or some off-critical-path items that would help you stay in the code while doing these other things? A manager’s job is typically about building a team as their product, but it’s also important to stay connected to the technical part - both for love and for relevance / humility. Have you asked (if available) someone to help with recruiting? Maybe offload some of the nitty gritty things that you aren’t adding value on to someone that can, or somebody that works for you and is interested in that side of the work? To enjoy every minute of the day requires understanding why you are doing it - to build your team. Connecting back to what it will get you may help. If you’re stuck doing stuff you don’t want to do because somebody above you “said so” (the curse of middle management) then that may make things a lot harder but you may also talk to them to help shape your role into what you want for what they need.
- fhbdukfrh 8y ago
  I don't think a manager should be grabbing tough bugs unless there is no time sensitivity (so why are you addressing them?) as they never have enough time to complete them and become a blocker. I think your best bet is to do strategic technical spikes and as an output identify deeper areas for your engineers to pursue.
groby_b 8y ago
I'm managing in one form or another for ~12 years, so... somewhat experienced at least, but take with a grain of salt. Does it get better? Maybe. That really depends on what you like. If you find joy in, essentially, coaching & teaching, it's a great job. If you enjoy politics, you'll be OK. If you get your joy from creating, it's much harder. You still create, as a manager. Teams. Processes. Cultures. All things that have incredibly long feedback cycles, nowhere close to writing some code, running it, iterating. I've currently got things in flight that (hopefully) will pay off three years from now. There is no instant success. That said, all the things where I as a dev said "Why on earth are we doing this stupid thing"? I get to fix those. Or, alternatively, to learn why it's not quite so stupid as I thought. Politics will happen, though. Wherever humans interact, there are politics. There are healthy levels, and dysfunctional levels. (Everybody lobbies for their project, but there are plenty of lines they shouldn't cross) Excel sheets will happen, too. After text docs and e-mail, it's your most important tool. (And many of us who came from tech nourish their yearning for building things by scripting the hell out of them, because that's all we get to code) But again, if you like interacting with people, at some point, a switch will flip. You'll have a day of back-to-back meetings about genuinely interesting efforts, and you'll walk out of it thinking "Damn, I can't believe they pay me for just spending a whole day chatting about cool stuff". You'll see the first of your reports stepping into a leadership role. You see a multi-year, multi-team effort come to fruition and can honestly say "would've failed without me bringing the teams together" So yes, it can be enjoyable. It depends on what you want, though. There's nothing wrong with doing a management stint and going back to coding after a few years, either. A lot of front-line managers bounce back and forth between the two sides. Hope that's at least remotely helpful. EDIT: Forgot to say that your place sounds... not quite healthy. It might be a question of finding a company that actually values managing and doesn't have it degenerate into total soul suck. They do exist.