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I'm in a very similar position. I find myself wondering if anyone really finds management fulfilling, or if that's just a lie we tell ourselves. I look at my p

I'm in a very similar position. I find myself wondering if anyone really finds management fulfilling, or if that's just a lie we tell ourselves. I look at my peers and don't see any of the passion and enthusiasm that I see in some developers.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
In general you hear people say a lot "Well, I went into management because the pay potential is higher and at an IC level you can really cap out fairly early". Well, the reason the pay is generally higher is because it is, generally, a much shittier job. If the pay was the same between developer and management tracks you'd see a heck of a lot fewer people wanting to get into management.
- mercutio2 8y ago
  I have never heard anyone say they went into management for the money and then stick with it for long. At least for the companies whose pay scales I’m familiar with, that would be a terrible trade off. You maybe get a tiny bit more money than a high performer, but you have a world of responsibility coupled with less control of your work product. You need to love coordination and mentoring to be a good manager (among many other things).
tashian 8y ago
I coach new engineering managers and have been both an engineer and a manager in the past. Management is fulfilling in an entirely different way than engineering is fulfilling. It's not only a career change, it's a change in mindset. If you are working as a manager but still living in the engineer's mindset, I can completely understand how it would feel very unfulfilling. It's not easy to make such a mindset change as an adult but I know it's possible because I've done it and I've seen others do it. It's a very personal change, kind of like breaking out of a psychic prison. It's not something you can think your way through, it's not an engineering problem to solve, it requires a deeper change in your beliefs and in how you use your mind from moment to moment. Engineering requires extreme internally-focused attention and an intensely analytical mindset and a "deep thinking" approach in order to keep all of the inner models and abstractions clear and well-organized. Management (and especially leadership) requires a practice of broader externally-focused awareness and a more intuitive mindset. A manager needs to hold several perspectives more loosely and have a "wide thinking" approach in order to be a great leader. All of the "soft skills" are either easy to adopt, or hard to adopt, depending on where your mindset is. If you are the engineer's mindset, you might find it very challenging influencing others or making yourself emotionally available as a leader. You know how people get "developer head" after a long day of coding and have a hard time communicating with people? Developer head inhibits the leadership soft skills. But in the manager's mindset, presence is completely natural, and from a place of presence things like empathy or approachability are natural too. For me it required 3-4 years of uncomfortable growth, and quite a bit of what I would call spiritual work, before I felt I had really found the manager's mindset. I hope this is helpful somehow; I'm happy to chat further about it anytime. :D
- underwater 8y ago
  I appreciate the offer. I've been managing for four years now. I've experienced a fairly substantial shift in mindset, not perfect, but most of the way to being there. All signs (delivering on outcomes, ad hoc feedback, 360-reviews, career-progression) indicate I'm good at this. It is satisfying in many ways. It's also much more impactful; as a manager I can do much more to help people and companies succeed than I could as a software engineer. But it is nowhere near as satisfying as being an engineer was. Go to a conference for software engineers, everyone is pumped up, and excited about what is happening. At a similar conference for engineering mangers you would not find that same level of happiness. I certainly don't go home and read management books or blogs.
mercutio2 8y ago
Being a manager can be grueling, but good management matters a lot. I, and many of my peers, really enjoy being managers. It helps that I don’t aspire to more pay/power/people; I like what I’m doing and I like my team, and that by itself is very satisfying. I do miss being close enough to the code to reliably fix lots of bugs, but I still code during times in the release cycle when less coordination and planning is needed, and that’s enough for me.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

In general you hear people say a lot "Well, I went into management because the pay potential is higher and at an IC level you can really cap out fairly early". Well, the reason the pay is generally higher is because it is, generally, a much shittier job. If the pay was the same between developer and management tracks you'd see a heck of a lot fewer people wanting to get into management.

mercutio2 8y ago
I have never heard anyone say they went into management for the money and then stick with it for long. At least for the companies whose pay scales I’m familiar with, that would be a terrible trade off. You maybe get a tiny bit more money than a high performer, but you have a world of responsibility coupled with less control of your work product. You need to love coordination and mentoring to be a good manager (among many other things).

tashian 8y ago

I coach new engineering managers and have been both an engineer and a manager in the past. Management is fulfilling in an entirely different way than engineering is fulfilling. It's not only a career change, it's a change in mindset. If you are working as a manager but still living in the engineer's mindset, I can completely understand how it would feel very unfulfilling. It's not easy to make such a mindset change as an adult but I know it's possible because I've done it and I've seen others do it. It's a very personal change, kind of like breaking out of a psychic prison. It's not something you can think your way through, it's not an engineering problem to solve, it requires a deeper change in your beliefs and in how you use your mind from moment to moment. Engineering requires extreme internally-focused attention and an intensely analytical mindset and a "deep thinking" approach in order to keep all of the inner models and abstractions clear and well-organized. Management (and especially leadership) requires a practice of broader externally-focused awareness and a more intuitive mindset. A manager needs to hold several perspectives more loosely and have a "wide thinking" approach in order to be a great leader. All of the "soft skills" are either easy to adopt, or hard to adopt, depending on where your mindset is. If you are the engineer's mindset, you might find it very challenging influencing others or making yourself emotionally available as a leader. You know how people get "developer head" after a long day of coding and have a hard time communicating with people? Developer head inhibits the leadership soft skills. But in the manager's mindset, presence is completely natural, and from a place of presence things like empathy or approachability are natural too. For me it required 3-4 years of uncomfortable growth, and quite a bit of what I would call spiritual work, before I felt I had really found the manager's mindset. I hope this is helpful somehow; I'm happy to chat further about it anytime. :D

underwater 8y ago
I appreciate the offer. I've been managing for four years now. I've experienced a fairly substantial shift in mindset, not perfect, but most of the way to being there. All signs (delivering on outcomes, ad hoc feedback, 360-reviews, career-progression) indicate I'm good at this. It is satisfying in many ways. It's also much more impactful; as a manager I can do much more to help people and companies succeed than I could as a software engineer. But it is nowhere near as satisfying as being an engineer was. Go to a conference for software engineers, everyone is pumped up, and excited about what is happening. At a similar conference for engineering mangers you would not find that same level of happiness. I certainly don't go home and read management books or blogs.

mercutio2 8y ago

Being a manager can be grueling, but good management matters a lot. I, and many of my peers, really enjoy being managers. It helps that I don’t aspire to more pay/power/people; I like what I’m doing and I like my team, and that by itself is very satisfying. I do miss being close enough to the code to reliably fix lots of bugs, but I still code during times in the release cycle when less coordination and planning is needed, and that’s enough for me.