8 ms·

I wonder if organic food is any better. I recall reading they use much more "natural" pesticides on organic produce. Is growing your own stuff in a backyard I d

I wonder if organic food is any better. I recall reading they use much more "natural" pesticides on organic produce. Is growing your own stuff in a backyard I don't have really the only way to avoid pesticides?

ip26 8y ago
Most of what I've seen has shown that it is indeed better, although not perfect. E.g. glyphosate is detectable in organic wine, but at much lower levels (5x?) compared to regular wine.
- solotronics 8y ago
  I wonder if wine from the EU is better at having less pesticides?
  - jillesvangurp 8y ago
    Lots of small wine producers across Europe differentiate by producing grapes using organic farming. If you are competing on quality, using a lot of pesticides might not be the best idea here. Competition is pretty strong and super markets tend to have a decent selection on their shelves where I live. Prices are not noticably higher. You can buy some OK organic wines for around 5 euros here in Germany. IMHO having a lot of pesticides in the food chain is probably not a great idea. Even if it is probably fine, why take the chance? Finding out we're wrong might take decades.
  - hammock 8y ago
    The EU has a far shorter list of approved pesticides than the US. Whether that translates to "less pesticides" is unclear but hopefully it at least translates to "less harm."
- hammock 8y ago
  Glyphosate is not approved for organic use so that's an irrelevant point. Whether total pesticide load (however you want to measure that) is higher or lower for organic vs conventional, varies widely with crop, location and farming method. There are toxic organic pesticides like copper-based compounds that persist in the soil. And things like strawberry fields are fumigated with methyl bromide regardless of organic or conventional. There is not perfect data on the harmfulness of many synthetic pesticides, so it's really hard to make a great judgment on whether it's worse or better for you - unless you have general faith that petroleum derived mystery cocktails are pretty much always going to be harmful. It's all bad when it comes down to it, we should prefer something like permaculture.
  - Tobani 8y ago
    > Glyphosate is not approved for organic use so that's an irrelevant point. Actually it is a pretty interesting point.
    - likpok 8y ago
      Saying "there's less glyphosate therefore less pesticide" is poor reasoning, because glyphosate is replaced with other, generally more toxic, pesticides in organic crops. It's interesting that organic crops have glyphosate despite it being banned for use with them, but that's a separate discussion.
      - thatcat 8y ago
        No it isn't. Glyophosate is broadspectrum herbicide for use with gmo glyophosate resistant crops only, there is no organic analogue to this. Also consider that the concentration used is much higher for glyophosate application and the reduced ability for it to be filtered from ground water creates additional externalities.
        likpok 8y ago
        There is indeed no organic analog for glyphosate. But there are other pesticides that are routinely applied to organic crops, such as copper sulfate, pyrethrin or rotenone. Both copper sulfate and rotenone are moderately toxic to people, and rotenone is highly toxic to fish.
        thatcat 8y ago
        Rotenone (which has it's usage restricted in omri) and pyrethrin are pesticides, copper sulfate is anti fungal; these non synthetic moderately toxic treatments are replaced with other, generally more toxic treatments in non-organic crops.
  - merpnderp 8y ago
    Methyl Bromide was nearly completely phased out in the US as of 2005. https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/phaseout-class-i-ozone-depleting-substances https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/phaseout-class-i-ozone-depl...
deleted 8y ago
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ip26 8y ago

Most of what I've seen has shown that it is indeed better, although not perfect. E.g. glyphosate is detectable in organic wine, but at much lower levels (5x?) compared to regular wine.

solotronics 8y ago
I wonder if wine from the EU is better at having less pesticides?
- jillesvangurp 8y ago
  Lots of small wine producers across Europe differentiate by producing grapes using organic farming. If you are competing on quality, using a lot of pesticides might not be the best idea here. Competition is pretty strong and super markets tend to have a decent selection on their shelves where I live. Prices are not noticably higher. You can buy some OK organic wines for around 5 euros here in Germany. IMHO having a lot of pesticides in the food chain is probably not a great idea. Even if it is probably fine, why take the chance? Finding out we're wrong might take decades.
- hammock 8y ago
  The EU has a far shorter list of approved pesticides than the US. Whether that translates to "less pesticides" is unclear but hopefully it at least translates to "less harm."
hammock 8y ago
Glyphosate is not approved for organic use so that's an irrelevant point. Whether total pesticide load (however you want to measure that) is higher or lower for organic vs conventional, varies widely with crop, location and farming method. There are toxic organic pesticides like copper-based compounds that persist in the soil. And things like strawberry fields are fumigated with methyl bromide regardless of organic or conventional. There is not perfect data on the harmfulness of many synthetic pesticides, so it's really hard to make a great judgment on whether it's worse or better for you - unless you have general faith that petroleum derived mystery cocktails are pretty much always going to be harmful. It's all bad when it comes down to it, we should prefer something like permaculture.
- Tobani 8y ago
  > Glyphosate is not approved for organic use so that's an irrelevant point. Actually it is a pretty interesting point.
  - likpok 8y ago
    Saying "there's less glyphosate therefore less pesticide" is poor reasoning, because glyphosate is replaced with other, generally more toxic, pesticides in organic crops. It's interesting that organic crops have glyphosate despite it being banned for use with them, but that's a separate discussion.
    - thatcat 8y ago
      No it isn't. Glyophosate is broadspectrum herbicide for use with gmo glyophosate resistant crops only, there is no organic analogue to this. Also consider that the concentration used is much higher for glyophosate application and the reduced ability for it to be filtered from ground water creates additional externalities.
      - likpok 8y ago
        There is indeed no organic analog for glyphosate. But there are other pesticides that are routinely applied to organic crops, such as copper sulfate, pyrethrin or rotenone. Both copper sulfate and rotenone are moderately toxic to people, and rotenone is highly toxic to fish.
        thatcat 8y ago
        Rotenone (which has it's usage restricted in omri) and pyrethrin are pesticides, copper sulfate is anti fungal; these non synthetic moderately toxic treatments are replaced with other, generally more toxic treatments in non-organic crops.
- merpnderp 8y ago
  Methyl Bromide was nearly completely phased out in the US as of 2005. https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/phaseout-class-i-ozone-depleting-substances https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/phaseout-class-i-ozone-depl...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]