6 ms·

How do the people buying votes make sure that the voter is voting the way they want? Do they not have a secret ballot?

by elpool2 8y ago

ra7 8y ago
They can't. It's a secret ballot.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  Cell phone with camera?
agentx3r 8y ago
I imagine it's more practical to try to 'get out the vote' without all the marketing in the middle, than try to bribe a person to vote against their interest.
gumby 8y ago
It's a secret ballot but many people have phones.
- markvdb 8y ago
  The tradition in (parts of) Italy is similar: http://in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=Voto_di_scambio_(Italy) http://in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=Voto_di_scambio... This is why it is illegal to take pictures of your vote.
senthil_rajasek 8y ago
Elections are a recurring event. I cannot prove it but it's behavioral training. People seem to vote for whoever gives them the best "incentive". I hesitate to call it a bribe because in other countries they call it "tax relief", "student loan forgiveness" etc.,
v_lisivka 8y ago
Capture your ballot with vote on the phone, then show it to dealer to receive bribe.
- msaharia 8y ago
  Banned a long time back. No cellphones are allowed. https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/ec-bans-use-of-cell-phones-inside-polling-stations/story-U55cUrTr9ydp5gcr8HwHtM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/ec-bans-use-of-cell-pho...
Dravidian 8y ago
I've seen religious tactics applied effectively for this, The potential voter is asked to swear over a religious artifact after receiving the money (bribe). e.g. For Hindu voters, a plate with oil lamp, an idol, a mixture of auspicious powder is used.The voter should swear over it that they will vote for that particular candidate. Elections are the main reason, politicians ensure religious superstitions flourish in India inspite of evil practices like casteism, sharia etc. Even when India's constitution is godless & secular (amended). Thanks to really noble people behind India's constitution.
- KorematsuFred 8y ago
  As an Indian who has worked extensively in multiple elections have "been there done that", let me tell everyone that above comment is completely ridiculous and devoid of any truth. It is not even a fringe phenomenon. Let me answer the original question. No one buys a vote in return of goodies. They buy "loyalty" vote is a consequence of that. Each candidate appoints a booth level worker first. The booth level worker is in the inner circle of trust for the candidate and booth size is typically <1400 voters. Entire history of voting patterns of each booth is available publicly. A worker may handle multiple booths too. The booth worker being a local already knows which way the winds are blowing and how to change their directions. For the poorest of poor he might offer cash and alcohol. For others he might offers government jobs, fake degrees, sex, licenses for businesses, shut eye approach towards illegal construction, protection from abusive husband and so on. Once the voter buys in, he has to show absolute loyalty towards this candidate. He is expected to appear in rallies, at local speeches and even argue in favor of the candidate in market. Each person has enemies and in case Mr X appears to be saying unfavorable things in public someone will inform the booth level worker who will then show up at his house with goons. You also need to understand secondary consequences of this sort of signaling. It means if a person was seen so actively working for Candidate X and if candidate Y wins, Candidate Y will not even help this person in future because obviously he was seen with Candidate X so often. (This can literally ruin people's lives from what I have seen). This also means there is zilch advantage for the person to backstab candidate X at the voting booth. (If you are married to her , you might as well have sex with her sort of thing). It is this phenomenon that eliminates back stabbing voters. In my personal experience this soon reaches the level of lassie fair economics. At some point it pays lot more to simply sabotage the booth agent of your opponent instead of actually buying voters. If your prospective booth agent betrays you, you lose hundreds of votes. Just like voters even the booth agents are greedy. The candidate gives him lot of cash to distribute but sometimes he just keeps it to himself. Part of the reason why BJP has done well in recent times despite spending less money than Congress is because BJP relies on its sister organization RSS which is a cadre based organization. They have pre-vetted individuals at every booth level whose loyalty is beyond doubt. The Congress party on other hand mostly relies on mercenary concept. They do a primary round of bidding where people who want their tickets tell how much money they can spend. The highest spender will then be given the ticket to fight elections. He has to donate 10% upfront to the party chief. Note: In my personal experience, with the exception of certain regions in most regions elections are pretty fair and are not determined by money. At least when it comes to Federal (central) elections. All candidates are aware of this fact. You might be able to gain additional 3% votes by sheer cash but you need to employ various other tactics to get more votes. As the middle class in India becomes larger and more aspirational the bids for votes change too. Even the poorest of poor now has electricity and hence correctly values 24x7 electricity above Rs 500 once in 5 years.
sharmi 8y ago
The people who are given incentives are very poor and uninformed about the ways of politics. Ideally, they can either refuse the incentives or just get it and vote the way they want. By human nature, they get a sense of obligation when they receive the incentives. They feel committed to vote for the party that provided the incentive. Even trying to convince them they don't have to, does not work. They feel the onus is on them to complete the "transaction" by casting the vote. That said, this is more of issue in by-elections, where there is only one or a handful of constituencies and the politicians can focus on them. When the election is state-wide or nation-wide, the major determining factor is still the popular sentiment towards the political parties in question (based on their track record in power, which of course is skewed by media).
pradn 8y ago
There are many academic studies on this exact topic. Two theories are given weight: 1) people feel a sense of obligation because they received something (the natural human tendency to repay debts) 2) being able to buy votes is a forward-looking signal that shows the party/candidate is serious and may be able to provide further benefits down the line. Further, political operators can at least guarantee that they went to the polls. This way, they can influence turnout. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/world-politics/article/electoral-handouts-as-information/5DEBC7E5983457F3CE272BFBADDA4687 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/world-politics/artic...

How do the people buying votes make sure that the voter is voting the way they want? Do they not have a secret ballot?

ra7 8y ago

They can't. It's a secret ballot.

giancarlostoro 8y ago
Cell phone with camera?

agentx3r 8y ago

I imagine it's more practical to try to 'get out the vote' without all the marketing in the middle, than try to bribe a person to vote against their interest.

gumby 8y ago

It's a secret ballot but many people have phones.

markvdb 8y ago
The tradition in (parts of) Italy is similar: http://in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=Voto_di_scambio_(Italy) http://in-formality.com/wiki/index.php?title=Voto_di_scambio... This is why it is illegal to take pictures of your vote.

senthil_rajasek 8y ago

Elections are a recurring event. I cannot prove it but it's behavioral training. People seem to vote for whoever gives them the best "incentive". I hesitate to call it a bribe because in other countries they call it "tax relief", "student loan forgiveness" etc.,

v_lisivka 8y ago

Capture your ballot with vote on the phone, then show it to dealer to receive bribe.

msaharia 8y ago
Banned a long time back. No cellphones are allowed. https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/ec-bans-use-of-cell-phones-inside-polling-stations/story-U55cUrTr9ydp5gcr8HwHtM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/ec-bans-use-of-cell-pho...

Dravidian 8y ago

I've seen religious tactics applied effectively for this, The potential voter is asked to swear over a religious artifact after receiving the money (bribe). e.g. For Hindu voters, a plate with oil lamp, an idol, a mixture of auspicious powder is used.The voter should swear over it that they will vote for that particular candidate. Elections are the main reason, politicians ensure religious superstitions flourish in India inspite of evil practices like casteism, sharia etc. Even when India's constitution is godless & secular (amended). Thanks to really noble people behind India's constitution.

KorematsuFred 8y ago
As an Indian who has worked extensively in multiple elections have "been there done that", let me tell everyone that above comment is completely ridiculous and devoid of any truth. It is not even a fringe phenomenon. Let me answer the original question. No one buys a vote in return of goodies. They buy "loyalty" vote is a consequence of that. Each candidate appoints a booth level worker first. The booth level worker is in the inner circle of trust for the candidate and booth size is typically <1400 voters. Entire history of voting patterns of each booth is available publicly. A worker may handle multiple booths too. The booth worker being a local already knows which way the winds are blowing and how to change their directions. For the poorest of poor he might offer cash and alcohol. For others he might offers government jobs, fake degrees, sex, licenses for businesses, shut eye approach towards illegal construction, protection from abusive husband and so on. Once the voter buys in, he has to show absolute loyalty towards this candidate. He is expected to appear in rallies, at local speeches and even argue in favor of the candidate in market. Each person has enemies and in case Mr X appears to be saying unfavorable things in public someone will inform the booth level worker who will then show up at his house with goons. You also need to understand secondary consequences of this sort of signaling. It means if a person was seen so actively working for Candidate X and if candidate Y wins, Candidate Y will not even help this person in future because obviously he was seen with Candidate X so often. (This can literally ruin people's lives from what I have seen). This also means there is zilch advantage for the person to backstab candidate X at the voting booth. (If you are married to her , you might as well have sex with her sort of thing). It is this phenomenon that eliminates back stabbing voters. In my personal experience this soon reaches the level of lassie fair economics. At some point it pays lot more to simply sabotage the booth agent of your opponent instead of actually buying voters. If your prospective booth agent betrays you, you lose hundreds of votes. Just like voters even the booth agents are greedy. The candidate gives him lot of cash to distribute but sometimes he just keeps it to himself. Part of the reason why BJP has done well in recent times despite spending less money than Congress is because BJP relies on its sister organization RSS which is a cadre based organization. They have pre-vetted individuals at every booth level whose loyalty is beyond doubt. The Congress party on other hand mostly relies on mercenary concept. They do a primary round of bidding where people who want their tickets tell how much money they can spend. The highest spender will then be given the ticket to fight elections. He has to donate 10% upfront to the party chief. Note: In my personal experience, with the exception of certain regions in most regions elections are pretty fair and are not determined by money. At least when it comes to Federal (central) elections. All candidates are aware of this fact. You might be able to gain additional 3% votes by sheer cash but you need to employ various other tactics to get more votes. As the middle class in India becomes larger and more aspirational the bids for votes change too. Even the poorest of poor now has electricity and hence correctly values 24x7 electricity above Rs 500 once in 5 years.

sharmi 8y ago

The people who are given incentives are very poor and uninformed about the ways of politics. Ideally, they can either refuse the incentives or just get it and vote the way they want. By human nature, they get a sense of obligation when they receive the incentives. They feel committed to vote for the party that provided the incentive. Even trying to convince them they don't have to, does not work. They feel the onus is on them to complete the "transaction" by casting the vote. That said, this is more of issue in by-elections, where there is only one or a handful of constituencies and the politicians can focus on them. When the election is state-wide or nation-wide, the major determining factor is still the popular sentiment towards the political parties in question (based on their track record in power, which of course is skewed by media).

pradn 8y ago

There are many academic studies on this exact topic. Two theories are given weight: 1) people feel a sense of obligation because they received something (the natural human tendency to repay debts) 2) being able to buy votes is a forward-looking signal that shows the party/candidate is serious and may be able to provide further benefits down the line. Further, political operators can at least guarantee that they went to the polls. This way, they can influence turnout. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/world-politics/article/electoral-handouts-as-information/5DEBC7E5983457F3CE272BFBADDA4687 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/world-politics/artic...