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I wonder if IP is really the right decision. AX25 isn't the bottleneck with existing packet radio, and because it's made for hams, it makes it easy to be sure t

I wonder if IP is really the right decision. AX25 isn't the bottleneck with existing packet radio, and because it's made for hams, it makes it easy to be sure that you're really within your license requirements. ie: identification. It's also difficult to accidentally send encrypted messages over AX25, whereas on IP you have to really watch Wireshark and make sure you're not doing something wrong. It's also not as chatty, which is a real concern when you have a mesh network and someone is hearing you better than you're hearing them --- it could get really messy without coordination. That being said, this is a very exciting project. I'd love to see packet radio make some progress since the 80s (outside of just repurposing 802.11 gear). We need the ARRL to stop wasting their time on a watered down HOA bill that they've been working on for like a decade, and start talking to the FCC about modernizing regulations for the 21st century. Two things that come to mind are that the spread spectrum/transmit bandwith restrictions are outdated, and encryption requirements need to be formally relaxed so that common digital communication like SSH or HTTPS can be supported to an extent -- I'm not saying I want the ham bands filled with encrypted traffic, but I'm fine with the small community of packet radio enthusiasts being able to remote into a computer from afar.

Aloha 8y ago
AX.25 was never designed to create very large networks with, it also doesn't integrate well into a modern world. Hams have been using IP technology for a very long time too, this isn't new.
- nickysielicki 8y ago
  Where do you live? VHF packet radio is extremely active in Wisconsin, and none of it is IP based. Outside of the guys in the northwest doing 802.11 with external amplifiers (hamwan), who else is using IP?
finnthehuman 8y ago
I’m ok with cryptographic authentication of unencrypted messages (eg https with null encryption). But as soon as encrypted payloads happen, everyone will be doing way more than the “ssh where no other radio transport is available” use case.
robocat 8y ago
> start talking to the FCC about modernizing regulations for the 21st century I would have thought that HAM operators need to fight to keep the regulations that they have, and that trying to make big changes would lead to worse outcomes?
- bloomer 8y ago
  Any of the regulations predate most digital communications so there are a bunch of obsolete rules specifying the maximum symbol rate for digital transmissions rather then restricting the bandwidth which is what one actual cares about for sharing the available frequency space. This restriction artificially precludes use of many modern transmission schemes and hamstrings experimentation.
mumrah 8y ago
Packet radio has made some progress since the 80s :). Here in North Carolina we have a network called TARPN http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html. We use re-purposed commercial radios, RaspberryPis, and custom TNCs for 1200 baud packet links. Some folks are experimenting with higher speed links (9600). These ISM modules will work on low power for close range links, but you can't just slap an amplifier and call it a day. There are regulatory issues with the tech they use (spread spectrum, wide bandwidth, encryption, etc).

Aloha 8y ago

AX.25 was never designed to create very large networks with, it also doesn't integrate well into a modern world. Hams have been using IP technology for a very long time too, this isn't new.

nickysielicki 8y ago
Where do you live? VHF packet radio is extremely active in Wisconsin, and none of it is IP based. Outside of the guys in the northwest doing 802.11 with external amplifiers (hamwan), who else is using IP?

finnthehuman 8y ago

I’m ok with cryptographic authentication of unencrypted messages (eg https with null encryption). But as soon as encrypted payloads happen, everyone will be doing way more than the “ssh where no other radio transport is available” use case.

robocat 8y ago

> start talking to the FCC about modernizing regulations for the 21st century I would have thought that HAM operators need to fight to keep the regulations that they have, and that trying to make big changes would lead to worse outcomes?

bloomer 8y ago
Any of the regulations predate most digital communications so there are a bunch of obsolete rules specifying the maximum symbol rate for digital transmissions rather then restricting the bandwidth which is what one actual cares about for sharing the available frequency space. This restriction artificially precludes use of many modern transmission schemes and hamstrings experimentation.

mumrah 8y ago

Packet radio has made some progress since the 80s :). Here in North Carolina we have a network called TARPN http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html. We use re-purposed commercial radios, RaspberryPis, and custom TNCs for 1200 baud packet links. Some folks are experimenting with higher speed links (9600). These ISM modules will work on low power for close range links, but you can't just slap an amplifier and call it a day. There are regulatory issues with the tech they use (spread spectrum, wide bandwidth, encryption, etc).