4 ms·

I was going to say. It's good to provide opportunities and accomodations for disabled people, but to expect this to be altruistic on the part of Amazon is naive

by goda90 8y ago

I was going to say. It's good to provide opportunities and accomodations for disabled people, but to expect this to be altruistic on the part of Amazon is naive. They've done the math and think the accommodations won't counteract the gains from being able to pay less, and get some PR.

julianozen 8y ago
> Likewise, Northwest Center employees and those it places with Amazon are paid at least minimum wage. (Seattle closed a loophole in its minimum wage law that allowed employers to pay people with a disability a sub-minimum wage and recovered back wages from Northwest Center in 2018. This was mentioned and it is implied that amazon is not paying these employees less > employees placed at Amazon by Northwest Center chalked up a productivity rate that was 98 percent of the average while achieving 37 percent better quality work than the general population, and with a perfect safety record, compared with a 1.1 percent warehouse incident rate. They also had better attendance. This sounds like a pretty big win Disclaimer: I am a former amazon employee
- joker3 8y ago
  If they don't come out and say that Amazon's not paying these employees a lower wage, then I'm not going to place a lot of faith in any implication.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    Direct quotes from the article, emphasis mine: > “I’m grateful to actually have gotten a job,” Howard said during a work break. “It’s just part time, but even still, it’s a good job. … I’m making above minimum wage.” > Likewise, Northwest Center employees and those it places with Amazon are paid at least minimum wage. (Seattle closed a loophole in its minimum wage law that allowed employers to pay people with a disability a sub-minimum wage and recovered back wages from Northwest Center in 2018. Washington and many other states still allow minimum wage waivers.)
    - atdrummond 8y ago
      So I wasn't intending to imply any specifics about Amazon's wage situation. That said, when I read that article, I assumed this referred to the federal minimum wage for sheltered workshop employees (which is a few dollars) rather than Seattle's minimum wage or the federal minimum of $10.35/hour. The latter wage is more important as the NC has claimed its workers are contractors and therefore only federal disability and wage laws apply.
cheeze 8y ago
I think it's okay to have both though. If they can find more profit by employing folks with disabilities, that's a net good. And why shouldn't they get some good PR out of it? Nothing wrong with that IMO.
- atdrummond 8y ago
  As the GP to that reply, I agree. Wasn't my intent to imply otherwise. I should have been more precise in my reply.
notyourwork 8y ago
So we shouldn’t employ disabled people? Why does everything have to have a negative spin? A business wants to profit, silly to think otherwise. I guess because of their greed we should be cynical of times when big business provide opportunity.
- pornel 8y ago
  We absolutely should employ disabled people. However, Amazon has a history of aggressively exploiting workers who have little bargaining power.
  - atdrummond 8y ago
    I welcome expanded opportunities for disabled persons. However, being familiar with the NC's past history regarding disabled employment, I had a degree or skepticism regarding the implementation.
tracer4201 8y ago
How did you make the jump to concluding that Amazon is doing this because of some greedy or nefarious purpose? Is it possible there could be management anywhere at Amazon who cares about this segment of the workforce? I guess - without any further information, why spread this negativity? I don’t understand the agenda here. My personal experience with shopping Amazon and AWS has been generally really good. Even if you’re has not been good, how do you extrapolate to Amazon people all being part of some evil conspiracy?
- atdrummond 8y ago
  I don't have an agenda. As a disabled person myself, I welcome expanded employment opportunities for disabled persons.
- goda90 8y ago
  I wouldn't call it nefarious, but corporations operate on greed. As another comment points out, it's probably a good thing that society can get this greed targeted towards improving the situation for people who might otherwise be marginalized. I'd say my agenda would be to encourage a healthy skepticism of every good thing you hear about a corporation. Amazon has had bad press regarding how they treat warehouse workers. If we're too busy praising them for this, are we missing out on places where the greed leads to bad things?
natalyarostova 8y ago
That's great -- it means the system works! If you can induce societally positive outcomes from greedy amoral people working in their own selfish interests, that's a signal that the social-system has been very well designed.
- atdrummond 8y ago
  I have no disagreements with that.

by goda90 8y ago

julianozen 8y ago

> Likewise, Northwest Center employees and those it places with Amazon are paid at least minimum wage. (Seattle closed a loophole in its minimum wage law that allowed employers to pay people with a disability a sub-minimum wage and recovered back wages from Northwest Center in 2018. This was mentioned and it is implied that amazon is not paying these employees less > employees placed at Amazon by Northwest Center chalked up a productivity rate that was 98 percent of the average while achieving 37 percent better quality work than the general population, and with a perfect safety record, compared with a 1.1 percent warehouse incident rate. They also had better attendance. This sounds like a pretty big win Disclaimer: I am a former amazon employee

joker3 8y ago
If they don't come out and say that Amazon's not paying these employees a lower wage, then I'm not going to place a lot of faith in any implication.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Direct quotes from the article, emphasis mine: > “I’m grateful to actually have gotten a job,” Howard said during a work break. “It’s just part time, but even still, it’s a good job. … I’m making above minimum wage.” > Likewise, Northwest Center employees and those it places with Amazon are paid at least minimum wage. (Seattle closed a loophole in its minimum wage law that allowed employers to pay people with a disability a sub-minimum wage and recovered back wages from Northwest Center in 2018. Washington and many other states still allow minimum wage waivers.)
  - atdrummond 8y ago
    So I wasn't intending to imply any specifics about Amazon's wage situation. That said, when I read that article, I assumed this referred to the federal minimum wage for sheltered workshop employees (which is a few dollars) rather than Seattle's minimum wage or the federal minimum of $10.35/hour. The latter wage is more important as the NC has claimed its workers are contractors and therefore only federal disability and wage laws apply.

cheeze 8y ago

I think it's okay to have both though. If they can find more profit by employing folks with disabilities, that's a net good. And why shouldn't they get some good PR out of it? Nothing wrong with that IMO.

atdrummond 8y ago
As the GP to that reply, I agree. Wasn't my intent to imply otherwise. I should have been more precise in my reply.

notyourwork 8y ago

So we shouldn’t employ disabled people? Why does everything have to have a negative spin? A business wants to profit, silly to think otherwise. I guess because of their greed we should be cynical of times when big business provide opportunity.

pornel 8y ago
We absolutely should employ disabled people. However, Amazon has a history of aggressively exploiting workers who have little bargaining power.
- atdrummond 8y ago
  I welcome expanded opportunities for disabled persons. However, being familiar with the NC's past history regarding disabled employment, I had a degree or skepticism regarding the implementation.

tracer4201 8y ago

How did you make the jump to concluding that Amazon is doing this because of some greedy or nefarious purpose? Is it possible there could be management anywhere at Amazon who cares about this segment of the workforce? I guess - without any further information, why spread this negativity? I don’t understand the agenda here. My personal experience with shopping Amazon and AWS has been generally really good. Even if you’re has not been good, how do you extrapolate to Amazon people all being part of some evil conspiracy?

atdrummond 8y ago
I don't have an agenda. As a disabled person myself, I welcome expanded employment opportunities for disabled persons.
goda90 8y ago
I wouldn't call it nefarious, but corporations operate on greed. As another comment points out, it's probably a good thing that society can get this greed targeted towards improving the situation for people who might otherwise be marginalized. I'd say my agenda would be to encourage a healthy skepticism of every good thing you hear about a corporation. Amazon has had bad press regarding how they treat warehouse workers. If we're too busy praising them for this, are we missing out on places where the greed leads to bad things?

natalyarostova 8y ago

That's great -- it means the system works! If you can induce societally positive outcomes from greedy amoral people working in their own selfish interests, that's a signal that the social-system has been very well designed.

atdrummond 8y ago
I have no disagreements with that.