4 ms·

There's really only one kind of environment where open offices make sense, and that's if you're in a high-stakes production environment. The classic example is

There's really only one kind of environment where open offices make sense, and that's if you're in a high-stakes production environment. The classic example is the trading floor: everyone on the team works in the same room because they all need to be within shouting distance in case the poo hits the fan. Also, because it's important that we be able to hear when someone shouts across the room, we're usually pretty good about keeping our voices down except in emergencies. It's certainly not our favorite part of the job, but trading floors are historically high-stress environments, and (1) we're compensated accordingly, and (2) we all knew that when we signed up. In a typical corporate office, I would not tolerate it. I would push back, and I encourage anyone with sufficient job security to push back too.

dvtrn 8y ago
In a typical corporate office, I would not tolerate it. I would push back, and I encourage anyone with sufficient job security to push back too. Very early in my career, when I as still operating in the break/fix world of help desk support I toured an office during an interview. It was a boilerroom sales team, complete with a gong that someone bashed as I walked along the back wall to the conference rooms, everyone cheered madly, papers flew, loud music started playing off of a set of overhead speakers. I winced the moment the music blared and almost visually grimaced from the volume. Along the way the hiring manager interviewing me pointed to an area in the back of the office with laptops stacked up to the desk from the floor, monitors, cables everywhere-directly underneath one of the speakers. He didn't have to tell me, I figured it out, but he told me anyway "And over there is where IT sits". I stopped the recruiter before we made it to the conference room and politely pardoned myself from the interview process. No way in hell. IMO, that push back needs to start early, as early as possible where possible. Not everyone may have the circumstances to punt on an interview like that, completely understandable, but the interview is just as much for your benefit as theirs. Candidates should evaluate as much as they can by sheer power of observation as they can verbally asking about working from home. That means taking in what you can that you might not be explicitly shown-or worse, steered away from if you're brought in for an on-site interview.
baud147258 8y ago
I had an intership where the devs were next to the trading floor. The noise level were very annoying and most work was done after the market had closed for the day
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pmiller2 8y ago
Sounds good in theory, but who has enough job security to push back meaningfully on an open office?
- jaredklewis 8y ago
  Do you read HN? When we're not lamenting that someone wrote something new in JS, we go back to our mainstay of humble-bragging about our hard ball negotiating strategies. I'll quickly summarize the majority of HN conversation for the uninitiated: if a potential employer asks you to write something on a white board or solve a take home coding problem, politely gather your things, leave, and start contributing to an open source Rust project until a more ethical employer makes you an offer. Follow the same procedure if a potential employer has an open office, uses recruiters, or employs anyone with the job title "Scrum Master." But to answer your question, apparently like everyone that posts to HN. ^_^
  - onlydeadheroes 8y ago
    God you are so much better than us. Tell me more!
ken 8y ago
Apparently I've never had "sufficient job security" to do this, but then, I've never worked at a single company more than 5 years. Does this mean I'm supposed to work in conditions I hate for 10 years, just to be able to say something about it?
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  Yeah the problem is if you've been there for a long time, it's expected that you're going to stay forever and your complaints get minimized, deflected and ignored. The only way to shatter the caricature is to actually leave. I think the only time to do it is during hiring, but I would like to know how other people have managed it.
  - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
    The problem is that if you're working at a place that switches to the open office layout, which happened to me, there are only two options: deal with it, or quit. I made my feelings known most emphatically, but I stuck it out for 2 years, and now we are moving back to cubicles. The thing is, so many people now work from home that the open office layout isn't so bad.

dvtrn 8y ago

In a typical corporate office, I would not tolerate it. I would push back, and I encourage anyone with sufficient job security to push back too. Very early in my career, when I as still operating in the break/fix world of help desk support I toured an office during an interview. It was a boilerroom sales team, complete with a gong that someone bashed as I walked along the back wall to the conference rooms, everyone cheered madly, papers flew, loud music started playing off of a set of overhead speakers. I winced the moment the music blared and almost visually grimaced from the volume. Along the way the hiring manager interviewing me pointed to an area in the back of the office with laptops stacked up to the desk from the floor, monitors, cables everywhere-directly underneath one of the speakers. He didn't have to tell me, I figured it out, but he told me anyway "And over there is where IT sits". I stopped the recruiter before we made it to the conference room and politely pardoned myself from the interview process. No way in hell. IMO, that push back needs to start early, as early as possible where possible. Not everyone may have the circumstances to punt on an interview like that, completely understandable, but the interview is just as much for your benefit as theirs. Candidates should evaluate as much as they can by sheer power of observation as they can verbally asking about working from home. That means taking in what you can that you might not be explicitly shown-or worse, steered away from if you're brought in for an on-site interview.

baud147258 8y ago

I had an intership where the devs were next to the trading floor. The noise level were very annoying and most work was done after the market had closed for the day

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pmiller2 8y ago

Sounds good in theory, but who has enough job security to push back meaningfully on an open office?

jaredklewis 8y ago
Do you read HN? When we're not lamenting that someone wrote something new in JS, we go back to our mainstay of humble-bragging about our hard ball negotiating strategies. I'll quickly summarize the majority of HN conversation for the uninitiated: if a potential employer asks you to write something on a white board or solve a take home coding problem, politely gather your things, leave, and start contributing to an open source Rust project until a more ethical employer makes you an offer. Follow the same procedure if a potential employer has an open office, uses recruiters, or employs anyone with the job title "Scrum Master." But to answer your question, apparently like everyone that posts to HN. ^_^
- onlydeadheroes 8y ago
  God you are so much better than us. Tell me more!

ken 8y ago

Apparently I've never had "sufficient job security" to do this, but then, I've never worked at a single company more than 5 years. Does this mean I'm supposed to work in conditions I hate for 10 years, just to be able to say something about it?

xkcd-sucks 8y ago
Yeah the problem is if you've been there for a long time, it's expected that you're going to stay forever and your complaints get minimized, deflected and ignored. The only way to shatter the caricature is to actually leave. I think the only time to do it is during hiring, but I would like to know how other people have managed it.
- ConceptJunkie 8y ago
  The problem is that if you're working at a place that switches to the open office layout, which happened to me, there are only two options: deal with it, or quit. I made my feelings known most emphatically, but I stuck it out for 2 years, and now we are moving back to cubicles. The thing is, so many people now work from home that the open office layout isn't so bad.