4 ms·

cited by 555 other papers suggesting RNA changes from life experience -https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4333222/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar

cited by 555 other papers suggesting RNA changes from life experience -https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4333222/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4333222/ so people are working on reproducing this and understanding this process more, to say more clearly: scientists are actively researching how evolution can happen without natural selection

thaumasiotes 8y ago
> how evolution can happen without natural selection This sounds incoherent. What does "natural selection" mean to you?
- cahooon 8y ago
  Modern usage of “evolution” sometimes conflates “change of the organism over time or a lineage between generations” with “Darwinian selection”. Sexual selection is an easy example of evolution that’s not due to Darwinian “natural” selection.
  - mannykannot 8y ago
    Sexual selection was one of Darwin's key insights. He realized that the 'fittest' in 'survival of the fittest' was not just about living longer. https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/commentary/evolution/sexual-selection https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/commentary/evolution/sexual-...
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    Sexual selection is literally a textbook example of natural selection. "Change of the organism between generations" is called "genetic drift" if it's undirected and "selection" if it's directed. The concept of "evolution without natural selection" doesn't really exist. Selection is how you get organisms that appear to be designed for a purpose. Sexual attractiveness is a purpose.
fifnir 8y ago
Epigenetic research isn't going against evolution, it's refining some details. We are discovering some nonmendelian dynamics of inheritance, but being epigenetic they are only about how the organism can differentially use its genetic library.
- caprese 8y ago
  was it not clear that I was talking about OP's claim regarding "natural selection outside of the body" when epigenetic is not outside of the body and can result in changes of the offspring, does your response run counter to my observation? so far all the responses seem to be more about a semantical distinction of the word evolution and natural selection
  - fifnir 8y ago
    Well semantics are important, especially in fields that someone is intimate with, and I'm currently finishing a phd in cis-regulation and epigenetics. When we stress mice and notice a difference in their offspring through epigenetics, this is something that has already evolved in mice. Parts of the parental DNA get "marked" and the mark passes on to the offspring and influences their development, but the mechanism that connects external stress and the marking of the parental DNA is itself a genetic mechanism and subject to evolution. The offspring whose development was changed because of the parental stress isn't evolved, much like a baby with FASD[1] isn't "evolved" either [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde...

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> how evolution can happen without natural selection This sounds incoherent. What does "natural selection" mean to you?

cahooon 8y ago
Modern usage of “evolution” sometimes conflates “change of the organism over time or a lineage between generations” with “Darwinian selection”. Sexual selection is an easy example of evolution that’s not due to Darwinian “natural” selection.
- mannykannot 8y ago
  Sexual selection was one of Darwin's key insights. He realized that the 'fittest' in 'survival of the fittest' was not just about living longer. https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/commentary/evolution/sexual-selection https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/commentary/evolution/sexual-...
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  Sexual selection is literally a textbook example of natural selection. "Change of the organism between generations" is called "genetic drift" if it's undirected and "selection" if it's directed. The concept of "evolution without natural selection" doesn't really exist. Selection is how you get organisms that appear to be designed for a purpose. Sexual attractiveness is a purpose.

fifnir 8y ago

Epigenetic research isn't going against evolution, it's refining some details. We are discovering some nonmendelian dynamics of inheritance, but being epigenetic they are only about how the organism can differentially use its genetic library.

caprese 8y ago
was it not clear that I was talking about OP's claim regarding "natural selection outside of the body" when epigenetic is not outside of the body and can result in changes of the offspring, does your response run counter to my observation? so far all the responses seem to be more about a semantical distinction of the word evolution and natural selection
- fifnir 8y ago
  Well semantics are important, especially in fields that someone is intimate with, and I'm currently finishing a phd in cis-regulation and epigenetics. When we stress mice and notice a difference in their offspring through epigenetics, this is something that has already evolved in mice. Parts of the parental DNA get "marked" and the mark passes on to the offspring and influences their development, but the mechanism that connects external stress and the marking of the parental DNA is itself a genetic mechanism and subject to evolution. The offspring whose development was changed because of the parental stress isn't evolved, much like a baby with FASD[1] isn't "evolved" either [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde...