3 ms·

This is really the beauty of the Fermi Paradox because the issue isn't "would everyone do this?". If there are starfaring civilizations (or just civilizations w

by cletus 8y ago

This is really the beauty of the Fermi Paradox because the issue isn't "would everyone do this?". If there are starfaring civilizations (or just civilizations with the necessary technology) within detectable range, it just takes one to go this route. Since we've been unable to detect the telltale signatures of such a megastructure, it either means that none of the civilizations within range have gone this route or there are none. Given what we know about the benefits of a Dyson swarm and how relatively low-tech it is, the idea that no one has gone that route becomes increasingly unlikely with the more civilizations there are.

colordrops 8y ago
How can you be so sure that a Dyson swarm is a sensible route at all given more advanced technology? We can't even figure out the sensible route for tech 5 years out.
rsynnott 8y ago
> Given what we know about the benefits of a Dyson swarm I think there's a real question of whether anyone would actually want one. The sun's total power output per person on earth is 5.5e+16W. That's 3000 times total human energy usage, _per person_. Even if you assume a system population in the trillions, that's still a pointlessly large amount of energy per capita (and again, current population trends don't support that, and we may reasonably assume that most Dyson sphere builders will figure out birth control). Most possible hypothetical uses for them seem to be things like converting all the mass in a solar system into a computer or similar, but again there's a real question of whether there's any market for that. I'm also not convinced we could necessarily detect one. A super-high-tech magic one would capture most of the available energy, leaving a largely invisible thing with mass, which sounds quite a lot like a neutron star. And if you had a lower-tech one that leaked most of the energy, well, that might look distinctive, but if you're throwing most of the energy away you probably don't need a complete Dyson sphere. And in any case, organised searches for Dyson spheres are pretty new, and are small efforts. We might have the data to support them right now, it's just that no-one's noticed yet...
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  There's an old fairy tale about a table that covers itself with food whenever you say some magic words. It's a relic from a time when starvation was a real problem for much of the population, and feasting was a real boon. In 2019, we've solved the food problem, at least in the developed world, mostly. If you need food in a hurry you don't need a magic table - you need a diner, or a restaurant, or a fast food place, or some wrapped sandwiches. Dyson Spheres are a Steampunk version of the fairy tale, a relic of an energy-poor and slightly overcrowded culture. OMG all that energy! All that space! You could use it for computing! Or... something else! In reality by the time we got to the point where building a Dyson Swarm was a realistic possibility, we'd most likely have moved far beyond needing one, or having any interest in needing one.
- Pharmakon 8y ago
  It’s also reasonable to speculate that a sufficiently advanced species might identify the solution to the problem of energy useage as being population control rather than mega-engineering. Instead of trillions, maybe a hallmark of sufficiently advanced species is orders of magnitude fewer of them. Especially if something like immortality is a goal, then reproduction has to be controlled. It’s certainly easier than capturing a star’s total output!

by cletus 8y ago

colordrops 8y ago

How can you be so sure that a Dyson swarm is a sensible route at all given more advanced technology? We can't even figure out the sensible route for tech 5 years out.

rsynnott 8y ago

> Given what we know about the benefits of a Dyson swarm I think there's a real question of whether anyone would actually want one. The sun's total power output per person on earth is 5.5e+16W. That's 3000 times total human energy usage, _per person_. Even if you assume a system population in the trillions, that's still a pointlessly large amount of energy per capita (and again, current population trends don't support that, and we may reasonably assume that most Dyson sphere builders will figure out birth control). Most possible hypothetical uses for them seem to be things like converting all the mass in a solar system into a computer or similar, but again there's a real question of whether there's any market for that. I'm also not convinced we could necessarily detect one. A super-high-tech magic one would capture most of the available energy, leaving a largely invisible thing with mass, which sounds quite a lot like a neutron star. And if you had a lower-tech one that leaked most of the energy, well, that might look distinctive, but if you're throwing most of the energy away you probably don't need a complete Dyson sphere. And in any case, organised searches for Dyson spheres are pretty new, and are small efforts. We might have the data to support them right now, it's just that no-one's noticed yet...

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
There's an old fairy tale about a table that covers itself with food whenever you say some magic words. It's a relic from a time when starvation was a real problem for much of the population, and feasting was a real boon. In 2019, we've solved the food problem, at least in the developed world, mostly. If you need food in a hurry you don't need a magic table - you need a diner, or a restaurant, or a fast food place, or some wrapped sandwiches. Dyson Spheres are a Steampunk version of the fairy tale, a relic of an energy-poor and slightly overcrowded culture. OMG all that energy! All that space! You could use it for computing! Or... something else! In reality by the time we got to the point where building a Dyson Swarm was a realistic possibility, we'd most likely have moved far beyond needing one, or having any interest in needing one.
Pharmakon 8y ago
It’s also reasonable to speculate that a sufficiently advanced species might identify the solution to the problem of energy useage as being population control rather than mega-engineering. Instead of trillions, maybe a hallmark of sufficiently advanced species is orders of magnitude fewer of them. Especially if something like immortality is a goal, then reproduction has to be controlled. It’s certainly easier than capturing a star’s total output!