4 ms·

Why do you include > the sales of national park lands How is that comparable to what the Germans or Russians did? For that matter, how is any of that compara

Why do you include > the sales of national park lands How is that comparable to what the Germans or Russians did? For that matter, how is any of that comparable to gulags or Auschwitz?

pgeorgi 8y ago
The forger also helped people refuse participating in the Vietnam war or get out of war-time Algeria. Concentration camps or Gulags aren't the only reason for people needing to leave the country without its government learning about it.
- leereeves 8y ago
  Are you suggesting forgers should forge documents to help people illegally enter the United States, to get around Trump's restrictions?
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    I don't care about the United States. Other than that, "needing to leave the country" (what I said) is very different from "illegally enter" (what you said), starting with the direction of travel.
    - leereeves 8y ago
      I agree, which is why I was confused. If any of Trump's policies have led someone to feel they need to leave the US, they don't need forged documents to do it.
7952 8y ago
The Holocaust has become a symbol of absolute evil, like the devil in a religion. We rightly understand that nothing contemporary could be comparable. In the same way that we wouldn't believe that a child has been possessed. Maybe the child is sick, even if not possessed. The lack of evil possession is not an excuse to ignore the illness. And there is a lot to be concerned about our culture. And yes there are parallels to some 20th century isms. But those things are bad because they are bad. Not because of some bogeyman from yesteryear.
- watwut 8y ago
  But, Holocaust did not happened because devil or supernatural. It happened because humans. It was entirely and fully human affair. Some of people who were kids at the timead seen it are still alive. Nazism is not bogeyman from yesterday, it is living ideology, altrought not in power. Alao, ISIS acts are contemporary and we might find they are comparable.
  - 7952 8y ago
    Oh I agree with you. Nazism is no more mystical than HIV or cancer. My point is more that society doesn't view it's in that way. WWII has become a big thing in the minds of people who had no direct involvement. It has assumed a cultural and political significance that is much more symbolic than how it was viewed in the past. And when something becomes symbolic it assumes a rhetorical and emotional power. You can talk about nazi evil and everyone knows what you mean, without really having any direct understanding of what it actually means in a practical sense. And in a practical sense the key is always to consider the effect of bad actions on individual people. It is about human rights and dignity. And that is what nationalists want to destroy. They value the "nation" more highly than they value individual humans. That is what made Nazis bad. Everything else is just fact based symbolism that can be twisted to support any argument you want.

Why do you include > the sales of national park lands How is that comparable to what the Germans or Russians did? For that matter, how is any of that comparable to gulags or Auschwitz?

pgeorgi 8y ago

The forger also helped people refuse participating in the Vietnam war or get out of war-time Algeria. Concentration camps or Gulags aren't the only reason for people needing to leave the country without its government learning about it.

leereeves 8y ago
Are you suggesting forgers should forge documents to help people illegally enter the United States, to get around Trump's restrictions?
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  I don't care about the United States. Other than that, "needing to leave the country" (what I said) is very different from "illegally enter" (what you said), starting with the direction of travel.
  - leereeves 8y ago
    I agree, which is why I was confused. If any of Trump's policies have led someone to feel they need to leave the US, they don't need forged documents to do it.

7952 8y ago

The Holocaust has become a symbol of absolute evil, like the devil in a religion. We rightly understand that nothing contemporary could be comparable. In the same way that we wouldn't believe that a child has been possessed. Maybe the child is sick, even if not possessed. The lack of evil possession is not an excuse to ignore the illness. And there is a lot to be concerned about our culture. And yes there are parallels to some 20th century isms. But those things are bad because they are bad. Not because of some bogeyman from yesteryear.

watwut 8y ago
But, Holocaust did not happened because devil or supernatural. It happened because humans. It was entirely and fully human affair. Some of people who were kids at the timead seen it are still alive. Nazism is not bogeyman from yesterday, it is living ideology, altrought not in power. Alao, ISIS acts are contemporary and we might find they are comparable.
- 7952 8y ago
  Oh I agree with you. Nazism is no more mystical than HIV or cancer. My point is more that society doesn't view it's in that way. WWII has become a big thing in the minds of people who had no direct involvement. It has assumed a cultural and political significance that is much more symbolic than how it was viewed in the past. And when something becomes symbolic it assumes a rhetorical and emotional power. You can talk about nazi evil and everyone knows what you mean, without really having any direct understanding of what it actually means in a practical sense. And in a practical sense the key is always to consider the effect of bad actions on individual people. It is about human rights and dignity. And that is what nationalists want to destroy. They value the "nation" more highly than they value individual humans. That is what made Nazis bad. Everything else is just fact based symbolism that can be twisted to support any argument you want.