5 ms·

ICE detaining families, splitting kids from their parents Both were widespread under Obama.

GunlogAlm 8y ago
This doesn't appear to have been the case: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administrati... https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856 https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/...
- brightball 8y ago
  DHS does not get along with these agencies apparently and have put out full statements on the matter. https://m.facebook.com/homelandsecurity/posts/2231821660163791 https://m.facebook.com/homelandsecurity/posts/22318216601637...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- leereeves 8y ago
  According to the FactCheck article you linked, the law requires that families either be separated or released. > In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. Obama released families. Trump has taken a stricter stance against immigration, which requires some unpleasant enforcement, but once again according to FactCheck, he did order that families be kept together as long as possible: > On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”
  - cbg0 8y ago
    > but once again according to FactCheck, he did order that families be kept together as long as possible That order came in pretty late. Thousands of children may have been separated before that order was put out: https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-BL-18-00511.pdf https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-BL-18-00511.pdf
    - leereeves 8y ago
      Yes, because Trump doesn't really have the legal power to ignore the Flores settlement with an executive order, but the public pressure made it impossible for anyone to challenge the EO. Out of curiousity, how would you suggest people trying to enter the United States with children should be handled, without just allowing them to enter freely?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
netsharc 8y ago
The 2 replies under your comment dispute this, but does it make it okay if "both sides" dit it? It's still fucking evil. Obama continued the policy of drone terrorism/murders, that's not okay either. Man oh man, America "the shining beacon of freedom and democracy". "But what about the infants being torn away from their parents?" "Don't worry, the other side did it too, so we're not the bad guys here!"
- belorn 8y ago
  When family separation was international news I tried to see what my country (Sweden) does. What I saw was basically that if a crime was serious enough that you put a person in temporary holding cells, any children under their charge is sent to an adult relative, friends, or so called family home if there is no other options. Sweden doesn't have orphanages and instead have a system which is more akin to temporary adoption where the child enter an existing family. The process for infants is identical. For Sweden, the rules in regard to temporary holding is also very clear. If the crime has a serious enough potential punishment and the investigation risk getting interference, or there is a significant flight risk, then the person under investigation is put in holding for as long as any of the above qualify. If Sweden ever get the same situation as the US and the government wanted to prevent family separation, what they would have to do is either write a special exception and override existing laws or change the punishment down to a fine. Personally I don't find the law evil. The US implementation could use some major redesign in order to prioritize the child needs over that of the parents, but children should never end up in jail because their parents broke the law. The solution to the US issue must thus be in fixing so that immigrants don't break the law when they want to apply for asylum/legal immigration. That is what we did during the refugee crisis.

This doesn't appear to have been the case: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administrati... https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856 https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/...

brightball 8y ago
DHS does not get along with these agencies apparently and have put out full statements on the matter. https://m.facebook.com/homelandsecurity/posts/2231821660163791 https://m.facebook.com/homelandsecurity/posts/22318216601637...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
leereeves 8y ago
According to the FactCheck article you linked, the law requires that families either be separated or released. > In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. Obama released families. Trump has taken a stricter stance against immigration, which requires some unpleasant enforcement, but once again according to FactCheck, he did order that families be kept together as long as possible: > On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”
- cbg0 8y ago
  > but once again according to FactCheck, he did order that families be kept together as long as possible That order came in pretty late. Thousands of children may have been separated before that order was put out: https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-BL-18-00511.pdf https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-BL-18-00511.pdf
  - leereeves 8y ago
    Yes, because Trump doesn't really have the legal power to ignore the Flores settlement with an executive order, but the public pressure made it impossible for anyone to challenge the EO. Out of curiousity, how would you suggest people trying to enter the United States with children should be handled, without just allowing them to enter freely?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

netsharc 8y ago

The 2 replies under your comment dispute this, but does it make it okay if "both sides" dit it? It's still fucking evil. Obama continued the policy of drone terrorism/murders, that's not okay either. Man oh man, America "the shining beacon of freedom and democracy". "But what about the infants being torn away from their parents?" "Don't worry, the other side did it too, so we're not the bad guys here!"

belorn 8y ago
When family separation was international news I tried to see what my country (Sweden) does. What I saw was basically that if a crime was serious enough that you put a person in temporary holding cells, any children under their charge is sent to an adult relative, friends, or so called family home if there is no other options. Sweden doesn't have orphanages and instead have a system which is more akin to temporary adoption where the child enter an existing family. The process for infants is identical. For Sweden, the rules in regard to temporary holding is also very clear. If the crime has a serious enough potential punishment and the investigation risk getting interference, or there is a significant flight risk, then the person under investigation is put in holding for as long as any of the above qualify. If Sweden ever get the same situation as the US and the government wanted to prevent family separation, what they would have to do is either write a special exception and override existing laws or change the punishment down to a fine. Personally I don't find the law evil. The US implementation could use some major redesign in order to prioritize the child needs over that of the parents, but children should never end up in jail because their parents broke the law. The solution to the US issue must thus be in fixing so that immigrants don't break the law when they want to apply for asylum/legal immigration. That is what we did during the refugee crisis.