6 ms·

Not sure if trolling, but look up family separation, Vietnamese deportation, the sales of national park lands, incitement to violence against journalists, the r

Not sure if trolling, but look up family separation, Vietnamese deportation, the sales of national park lands, incitement to violence against journalists, the rise in hate crimes, etc

leereeves 8y ago
Why do you include > the sales of national park lands How is that comparable to what the Germans or Russians did? For that matter, how is any of that comparable to gulags or Auschwitz?
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  The forger also helped people refuse participating in the Vietnam war or get out of war-time Algeria. Concentration camps or Gulags aren't the only reason for people needing to leave the country without its government learning about it.
  - leereeves 8y ago
    Are you suggesting forgers should forge documents to help people illegally enter the United States, to get around Trump's restrictions?
    - pgeorgi 8y ago
      I don't care about the United States. Other than that, "needing to leave the country" (what I said) is very different from "illegally enter" (what you said), starting with the direction of travel.
      - leereeves 8y ago
        I agree, which is why I was confused. If any of Trump's policies have led someone to feel they need to leave the US, they don't need forged documents to do it.
- 7952 8y ago
  The Holocaust has become a symbol of absolute evil, like the devil in a religion. We rightly understand that nothing contemporary could be comparable. In the same way that we wouldn't believe that a child has been possessed. Maybe the child is sick, even if not possessed. The lack of evil possession is not an excuse to ignore the illness. And there is a lot to be concerned about our culture. And yes there are parallels to some 20th century isms. But those things are bad because they are bad. Not because of some bogeyman from yesteryear.
  - watwut 8y ago
    But, Holocaust did not happened because devil or supernatural. It happened because humans. It was entirely and fully human affair. Some of people who were kids at the timead seen it are still alive. Nazism is not bogeyman from yesterday, it is living ideology, altrought not in power. Alao, ISIS acts are contemporary and we might find they are comparable.
    - 7952 8y ago
      Oh I agree with you. Nazism is no more mystical than HIV or cancer. My point is more that society doesn't view it's in that way. WWII has become a big thing in the minds of people who had no direct involvement. It has assumed a cultural and political significance that is much more symbolic than how it was viewed in the past. And when something becomes symbolic it assumes a rhetorical and emotional power. You can talk about nazi evil and everyone knows what you mean, without really having any direct understanding of what it actually means in a practical sense. And in a practical sense the key is always to consider the effect of bad actions on individual people. It is about human rights and dignity. And that is what nationalists want to destroy. They value the "nation" more highly than they value individual humans. That is what made Nazis bad. Everything else is just fact based symbolism that can be twisted to support any argument you want.
tomjakubowski 8y ago
> Vietnamese deportation Vietnamese-Americans include some of the most reliable Republican voters in the country, I wonder if this will change that.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  Are they indeed deporting US citizens?
chrisco255 8y ago
Don't pretend like separation didn't happen during previous administrations including Obama's. The Vietnamese situation is simply uncertainty and involves only folks with criminal records. No actual action has taken place. Trump admin walked back plans to sell Utah national park lands: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/402727-administration-takes-selling-national-park-land-to-private-sector https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/402727-adminis... He also recently signed a bill to expand national park territory including Joshua Tree: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/13/senate-bill-public-lands-national-parks-expanded https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/13/senate-b... Where did Trump call for violence against journalists?
sparkie 8y ago
There's a rise in "fake hate crimes" against minorities, and a rise in hate crimes and violence against conservatives, which is largely legitimized by the left-wing media. There are no "journalists" left to incite violence against, and it's a complete fabrication that Trump is trying to do such thing anyway. Trump is calling out the "Fake News" for what it is. If they weren't so busy searching for nonexistent Russia collusion and hoping that they might impeach Trump, they might actually get some journalism done.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  There is a rise of hate crimes committed by conservatives, a high profile example being the recent New Zealand killer who praised Trump in his manifesto. Also an increase in hate crimes against Muslims. I can think of two high profile fake hate crimes, as you mention. But that number is dwarfed by the number of actual hate crimes, which continue daily. I haven't heard about the violence against conservatives you mention... Can you point me at an example so I can learn more?
  - sparkie 8y ago
    https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/ https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-act...
    - erikpukinskis 8y ago
      Thanks for the link. Some legitimate violence in there. I do think leftist have an unacceptable problem with threats of violence, and media organizations inckuding Twitter don't take them seriously enough. Not particularly different than the right who also has a problem with violence and threats but I acknowledge there is a problem on both sides.
      - 8y ago
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
I know there were discussions about selling national park lands, but I can't find any information on whether it actually happen? Do you have any links?
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  The instance I remember was land in Utah's Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. Not sold yet, but no longer protected.
- DFHippie 8y ago
  Link found in Wikipedia: https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-trump-national-monuments-20171204-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-trump-national-monument...
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    Thank you. Doesn't look like something has been sold though...
- blackflame7000 8y ago
  There are also new national parks being created: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/overnights/430339-indiana-gets-first-national-park https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/overnights/430...
jsbaby608 8y ago
Family separation started under Obama and the rise in hate crimes is a false narrative. Violence has actually decreased over the past decade. Journalists are only covering specific cases because it pushes the idea that Trump=bad. The vietnamese that got deported also committed crimes. He didn't deport everyone, which isn't really that bad. Again, he hasn't really done much of anything and is mostly a lame duck president.

Not sure if trolling, but look up family separation, Vietnamese deportation, the sales of national park lands, incitement to violence against journalists, the rise in hate crimes, etc

leereeves 8y ago

Why do you include > the sales of national park lands How is that comparable to what the Germans or Russians did? For that matter, how is any of that comparable to gulags or Auschwitz?

pgeorgi 8y ago
The forger also helped people refuse participating in the Vietnam war or get out of war-time Algeria. Concentration camps or Gulags aren't the only reason for people needing to leave the country without its government learning about it.
- leereeves 8y ago
  Are you suggesting forgers should forge documents to help people illegally enter the United States, to get around Trump's restrictions?
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    I don't care about the United States. Other than that, "needing to leave the country" (what I said) is very different from "illegally enter" (what you said), starting with the direction of travel.
    - leereeves 8y ago
      I agree, which is why I was confused. If any of Trump's policies have led someone to feel they need to leave the US, they don't need forged documents to do it.
7952 8y ago
The Holocaust has become a symbol of absolute evil, like the devil in a religion. We rightly understand that nothing contemporary could be comparable. In the same way that we wouldn't believe that a child has been possessed. Maybe the child is sick, even if not possessed. The lack of evil possession is not an excuse to ignore the illness. And there is a lot to be concerned about our culture. And yes there are parallels to some 20th century isms. But those things are bad because they are bad. Not because of some bogeyman from yesteryear.
- watwut 8y ago
  But, Holocaust did not happened because devil or supernatural. It happened because humans. It was entirely and fully human affair. Some of people who were kids at the timead seen it are still alive. Nazism is not bogeyman from yesterday, it is living ideology, altrought not in power. Alao, ISIS acts are contemporary and we might find they are comparable.
  - 7952 8y ago
    Oh I agree with you. Nazism is no more mystical than HIV or cancer. My point is more that society doesn't view it's in that way. WWII has become a big thing in the minds of people who had no direct involvement. It has assumed a cultural and political significance that is much more symbolic than how it was viewed in the past. And when something becomes symbolic it assumes a rhetorical and emotional power. You can talk about nazi evil and everyone knows what you mean, without really having any direct understanding of what it actually means in a practical sense. And in a practical sense the key is always to consider the effect of bad actions on individual people. It is about human rights and dignity. And that is what nationalists want to destroy. They value the "nation" more highly than they value individual humans. That is what made Nazis bad. Everything else is just fact based symbolism that can be twisted to support any argument you want.

tomjakubowski 8y ago

> Vietnamese deportation Vietnamese-Americans include some of the most reliable Republican voters in the country, I wonder if this will change that.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
Are they indeed deporting US citizens?

chrisco255 8y ago

Don't pretend like separation didn't happen during previous administrations including Obama's. The Vietnamese situation is simply uncertainty and involves only folks with criminal records. No actual action has taken place. Trump admin walked back plans to sell Utah national park lands: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/402727-administration-takes-selling-national-park-land-to-private-sector https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/402727-adminis... He also recently signed a bill to expand national park territory including Joshua Tree: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/13/senate-bill-public-lands-national-parks-expanded https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/13/senate-b... Where did Trump call for violence against journalists?

sparkie 8y ago

There's a rise in "fake hate crimes" against minorities, and a rise in hate crimes and violence against conservatives, which is largely legitimized by the left-wing media. There are no "journalists" left to incite violence against, and it's a complete fabrication that Trump is trying to do such thing anyway. Trump is calling out the "Fake News" for what it is. If they weren't so busy searching for nonexistent Russia collusion and hoping that they might impeach Trump, they might actually get some journalism done.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 8y ago
There is a rise of hate crimes committed by conservatives, a high profile example being the recent New Zealand killer who praised Trump in his manifesto. Also an increase in hate crimes against Muslims. I can think of two high profile fake hate crimes, as you mention. But that number is dwarfed by the number of actual hate crimes, which continue daily. I haven't heard about the violence against conservatives you mention... Can you point me at an example so I can learn more?
- sparkie 8y ago
  https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/ https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-act...
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Thanks for the link. Some legitimate violence in there. I do think leftist have an unacceptable problem with threats of violence, and media organizations inckuding Twitter don't take them seriously enough. Not particularly different than the right who also has a problem with violence and threats but I acknowledge there is a problem on both sides.
    - 8y ago

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

I know there were discussions about selling national park lands, but I can't find any information on whether it actually happen? Do you have any links?

erikpukinskis 8y ago
The instance I remember was land in Utah's Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. Not sold yet, but no longer protected.
DFHippie 8y ago
Link found in Wikipedia: https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-trump-national-monuments-20171204-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-trump-national-monument...
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  Thank you. Doesn't look like something has been sold though...
blackflame7000 8y ago
There are also new national parks being created: https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/overnights/430339-indiana-gets-first-national-park https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/overnights/430...

jsbaby608 8y ago

Family separation started under Obama and the rise in hate crimes is a false narrative. Violence has actually decreased over the past decade. Journalists are only covering specific cases because it pushes the idea that Trump=bad. The vietnamese that got deported also committed crimes. He didn't deport everyone, which isn't really that bad. Again, he hasn't really done much of anything and is mostly a lame duck president.