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Unless you're spending all your income, you cannot use Numbeo and other CoL calculators to make comparisons between gross salaries in different countries. I'm

Unless you're spending all your income, you cannot use Numbeo and other CoL calculators to make comparisons between gross salaries in different countries. I'm Swiss and I worked in Berlin, I guarantee you absolutely don't need to make twice the salary to keep your standard of living. Taxes alone mean that above a certain salary, you actually need to make more in Germany. And while the situation is better than in Switzerland, Germany isn't some kind of paradise for parents with young kids. All the people we hired and relocated from overseas had trouble finding Kitas. https://www.thelocal.de/20180524/how-a-childcare-crisis-is-leaving-berlin-parents-stuck-at-home-with-their-kids https://www.thelocal.de/20180524/how-a-childcare-crisis-is-l...

krn 8y ago
> Taxes alone mean that above a certain salary, you actually need to make more in Germany. Including taxes, the difference is 160k (Zurich) vs 100k (Berlin) for the same standard of life. I am not claiming that Switzerland is a bad choice, but it's not some kind of paradise, either. Of course, the higher the percentage of income one saves, the better deal working in Switzerland is. Especially, if one later chooses to spend those savings outside of it.
- hocuspocus 8y ago
  100k gross in Berlin is about 60k net assuming private healthcare insurance. Say you spend 10k a year on rent + utilities, which is very optimistic for someone that would move to Berlin in 2019. 160k gross in Zürich is ~115k after social contributions and taxes. Let's assume 5k for health insurance and 25k on rent a year. You're still 30k CHF ahead in Zürich. I don't see how these salaries are comparable.
  - krn 8y ago
    > You're still 30k CHF ahead in Zürich. I don't see how these salaries are comparable. How? Because everything costs twice as much in Zurich. You can afford a way more with 50k / year in Berlin than with 80k / year in Zurich.
    - hocuspocus 8y ago
      First, not everything costs twice as much, far from that. Big expenses are going to be similar, or even cheaper due to the lower VAT. Electronics, vehicles, transportation, travel/vacation, broadband... there are really plenty of items in my budget that are more significant than the price of a liter of milk. And again, assuming people are spending their entire income is completely ridiculous. You can deny reality all you want, but anyone who's lived in both countries will confirm what I'm saying.
      - seppel 8y ago
        > And again, assuming people are spending their entire income is completely ridiculous. Indeed. This only applies to low income households. If you are a software engeneer, COL no longer matters that much, because you only spend maybe a third of your income locally. Thus the net income matters much more. This is also why people usually move from low to high COL areas and not the other way around.
      - krn 8y ago
        > Big expenses are going to be similar, or even cheaper due to the lower VAT. Electronics, vehicles, transportation, travel/vacation, broadband... These are not big expenses. Buying real estate is. And the price per square meter in Zurich is twice higher than in Berlin, making the difference in salary neglectable. It's obvious that working in Switzerland makes buying things produced in the rest of the world look cheaper. But if a house in Zurich costs 1 mln, and a house in Berlin costs 0.5 mln, one needs to work no less to be able to afford it. Therefore, someone making 100k in Berlin can easily have a similar quality of life as someone making 160-200k in Zurich.
        TomMarius 8y ago
        Do you really need to buy real estate in Zurich? You can work in Zurich and buy real estate in Prague. Btw it's a 35 min train ride from Zurich to a German town with a supermarket that has German prices. There are people going there with cars (40 min drive) and bringing back stuff for friends.
- lixtra 8y ago
  I don’t think Zurich and Berlin can be compared without considering your personal preferences. If you need a million people around you’ll feel lonely in Zurich. If you’re into mountain hikes and skiing, Berlin is just plain boring. People are happy in Berlin and Zurich but for different reasons (and usually you couldn’t change that with money).

krn 8y ago

> Taxes alone mean that above a certain salary, you actually need to make more in Germany. Including taxes, the difference is 160k (Zurich) vs 100k (Berlin) for the same standard of life. I am not claiming that Switzerland is a bad choice, but it's not some kind of paradise, either. Of course, the higher the percentage of income one saves, the better deal working in Switzerland is. Especially, if one later chooses to spend those savings outside of it.

hocuspocus 8y ago
100k gross in Berlin is about 60k net assuming private healthcare insurance. Say you spend 10k a year on rent + utilities, which is very optimistic for someone that would move to Berlin in 2019. 160k gross in Zürich is ~115k after social contributions and taxes. Let's assume 5k for health insurance and 25k on rent a year. You're still 30k CHF ahead in Zürich. I don't see how these salaries are comparable.
- krn 8y ago
  > You're still 30k CHF ahead in Zürich. I don't see how these salaries are comparable. How? Because everything costs twice as much in Zurich. You can afford a way more with 50k / year in Berlin than with 80k / year in Zurich.
  - hocuspocus 8y ago
    First, not everything costs twice as much, far from that. Big expenses are going to be similar, or even cheaper due to the lower VAT. Electronics, vehicles, transportation, travel/vacation, broadband... there are really plenty of items in my budget that are more significant than the price of a liter of milk. And again, assuming people are spending their entire income is completely ridiculous. You can deny reality all you want, but anyone who's lived in both countries will confirm what I'm saying.
    - seppel 8y ago
      > And again, assuming people are spending their entire income is completely ridiculous. Indeed. This only applies to low income households. If you are a software engeneer, COL no longer matters that much, because you only spend maybe a third of your income locally. Thus the net income matters much more. This is also why people usually move from low to high COL areas and not the other way around.
    - krn 8y ago
      > Big expenses are going to be similar, or even cheaper due to the lower VAT. Electronics, vehicles, transportation, travel/vacation, broadband... These are not big expenses. Buying real estate is. And the price per square meter in Zurich is twice higher than in Berlin, making the difference in salary neglectable. It's obvious that working in Switzerland makes buying things produced in the rest of the world look cheaper. But if a house in Zurich costs 1 mln, and a house in Berlin costs 0.5 mln, one needs to work no less to be able to afford it. Therefore, someone making 100k in Berlin can easily have a similar quality of life as someone making 160-200k in Zurich.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        Do you really need to buy real estate in Zurich? You can work in Zurich and buy real estate in Prague. Btw it's a 35 min train ride from Zurich to a German town with a supermarket that has German prices. There are people going there with cars (40 min drive) and bringing back stuff for friends.
lixtra 8y ago
I don’t think Zurich and Berlin can be compared without considering your personal preferences. If you need a million people around you’ll feel lonely in Zurich. If you’re into mountain hikes and skiing, Berlin is just plain boring. People are happy in Berlin and Zurich but for different reasons (and usually you couldn’t change that with money).