3 ms·

What reason MITM solutions have to support more client protocols that terminate on a local network?

tyingq 8y ago
If it just drops QUIC requests, then the browser has to do 2 parallel requests, one HTTP, one QUIC, and pick the winner. I believe that's what Chrome does now.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  So, no reason then. That overhead is like microseconds and you can disable it if it bothers you (you have to configure web browsers for MITM anyway). I actually disable QUIC myself, because I've noticed it slows everything down too much on some home routers.
  - windexh8er 8y ago
    > I actually disable QUIC myself, because I've noticed it slows everything down too much on some home routers. I'm curious how you measured and came to this conclusion since the design and most all metrics claim the opposite? And are you sure it isn't a bufferbloat issue rather than QUIC?
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      I was just browsing websites that were loading unusually slowly, so did the usual ping/mtr to investigate, which pointed to the router. From there and a bit of tcpdumping the cause turned out to be UDP traffic to Google from another person, who was watching videos I think.
      - the8472 8y ago
        your router shouldn't introduce noticable latency. If it does it either has a weak CPU or network queues that are too large. In the former case you need to upgrade hardware, in the latter you need a firmware that supports CAKE.
        londons_explore 8y ago
        Some routers have hardware NAT for TCP, but use the CPU for UDP. Also, some routers prioritize all UDP packets because they treat them as VoIP. Then all TCP suffers. Some service providers traffic shape UDP because uTorrent uses it (UTP) on random port numbers.
        the8472 8y ago
        If the router can't handle a scenario where you replace all TCP with UDP then it's a cheap plastic toy in my eyes. Don't blame the protocol, blame the router. Sending MTU-sized UDP flows to a dozen targets at most is not even the most extreme, non-malicious scenario you can encounter on networks. Similar arguments go for the prioritization.
        londons_explore 8y ago
        Quic measures delay so won't fill big buffers.
  - tyingq 8y ago
    No reason for an MITM to try and support HTTP/3 on a reasonable timeline, and avoid making their customers figure it out on their own? Er, okay. Edit: Ahh...read some of your other posts. You aren't a fan of HTTP/3, which puts your comment in context for me.

If it just drops QUIC requests, then the browser has to do 2 parallel requests, one HTTP, one QUIC, and pick the winner. I believe that's what Chrome does now.

zzzcpan 8y ago
So, no reason then. That overhead is like microseconds and you can disable it if it bothers you (you have to configure web browsers for MITM anyway). I actually disable QUIC myself, because I've noticed it slows everything down too much on some home routers.
- windexh8er 8y ago
  > I actually disable QUIC myself, because I've noticed it slows everything down too much on some home routers. I'm curious how you measured and came to this conclusion since the design and most all metrics claim the opposite? And are you sure it isn't a bufferbloat issue rather than QUIC?
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    I was just browsing websites that were loading unusually slowly, so did the usual ping/mtr to investigate, which pointed to the router. From there and a bit of tcpdumping the cause turned out to be UDP traffic to Google from another person, who was watching videos I think.
    - the8472 8y ago
      your router shouldn't introduce noticable latency. If it does it either has a weak CPU or network queues that are too large. In the former case you need to upgrade hardware, in the latter you need a firmware that supports CAKE.
      - londons_explore 8y ago
        Some routers have hardware NAT for TCP, but use the CPU for UDP. Also, some routers prioritize all UDP packets because they treat them as VoIP. Then all TCP suffers. Some service providers traffic shape UDP because uTorrent uses it (UTP) on random port numbers.
        the8472 8y ago
        If the router can't handle a scenario where you replace all TCP with UDP then it's a cheap plastic toy in my eyes. Don't blame the protocol, blame the router. Sending MTU-sized UDP flows to a dozen targets at most is not even the most extreme, non-malicious scenario you can encounter on networks. Similar arguments go for the prioritization.
      - londons_explore 8y ago
        Quic measures delay so won't fill big buffers.
- tyingq 8y ago
  No reason for an MITM to try and support HTTP/3 on a reasonable timeline, and avoid making their customers figure it out on their own? Er, okay. Edit: Ahh...read some of your other posts. You aren't a fan of HTTP/3, which puts your comment in context for me.