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> You get forgotten That's the thing though - as long as something is banned, it doesn't stay forgotten. We see Tiananmen Square pop up all the time not becaus

by jjcm 8y ago

> You get forgotten That's the thing though - as long as something is banned, it doesn't stay forgotten. We see Tiananmen Square pop up all the time not because of its major historical significance, but because of the attempts by certain governments to censor it. There are better ways to forget something collectively as a culture. Right now if you google "New Zealand shooting", half of the articles are about the banning of the information. The banning itself gave it more attention, and realistically it wont stop those who want to find it from finding it. What I'd rather have seen was NZ focusing on the victims and the families. Drown out the manifesto with positivity. Focus the news cycle on the communities that have been affected; show them coming together and embracing each other. Make what is remembered not the shooter or their manifesto, but how the community responded.

deleted 8y ago
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- deleted 8y ago
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ignoramous 8y ago
> That's the thing though - as long as something is banned, it doesn't stay forgotten. Pretty much this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect Also, govt (democratic ones, esp) are notorious for being short-sighted and taking populist measures, so no surprises here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses Imo, what the govt should considering doing (if they haven't already): 1. Weed out rouge elements (sadly, extensive surveillance is one way to achieve this, another would be with help of citizen-journalists/investigators) within the state, and secure immigration points 2. A focused task force to address internal threats and give them a degree of autonomy. 3. A memorial to immortalize the victims. 4. Govt mandated security at places of congregation of all sizes (malls, stations, places of worship, parks). Edit: /s
- celticninja 8y ago
  *rogue Rouge is french for red and is usually used to describe makeup.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  So basically to protect freedom we need to create a police state with permanent security everywhere and live in constant fear. Is /r/TopMindsOfHN a thing yet?
  - ignoramous 8y ago
    Sorry. I guess the sarcasm was too dry to be obvious? I listed down things that other nation states (NSA? Abu Gharib/Patriot Act? Wall along the Radcliffe Line?) have done in the past in response to persistent danger. And are guilty of taking populist measures at a great expense, sometimes. There's always been such knee-jerk reaction from nation states, that then resort to drastic initiatives partly because they do not understand technologies involved (Secure Golden Key?), or they aren't held accountable as often and get away with a lot (WMDs?). Here's Bruce Schneier on the topic https://youtu.be/GkJCI3_jbtg https://youtu.be/GkJCI3_jbtg
  - leereeves 8y ago
    No, because that sub is pure snark and nothing like it belongs here. > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
- freshm087 8y ago
  In fact, exactly NZ gov't should have continued doing things as usual. This tragedy, while having huge media-multiplied emotional response, is (from POV of rational security) is an absolute outlier. An average Kiwi has probably bigger chance to choke on beefsteak than to be killed by a political weirdo. Few politicians however are able to resist a temptation to pose as a "decisive leader" and play a security theater.
ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
I disagree. I’d rather it was banned and this shit gets squashed. Yeah it’s still available and people can try seek it out, but they have to seek it out. No one on Facebook will be sharing it on their wall, etc. And this isn’t a one or the other thing, NZ has banned that crap and rallied around the families. A huge amount of money has been raise of which the total is still rising. The whole country stopped on Friday for a national call to prayer followed by 2 minutes silence. Other countries might be making a big deal about the banning but it’s not the key headline here.
- freshm087 8y ago
  NZ is in a state of collective shock, and, at the moment, apparently a very cool head, and bravery (understanding that you will get massive social pressure, and lots of ugly accusations) needed to stand against censorship. By no means it's a normal situation for a political debare.
javagram 8y ago
> We see Tiananmen Square pop up all the time not because of its major historical significance, but because of the attempts by certain governments to censor it. My understanding is most young Chinese know nothing about Tiananmen Square because the Chinese government has in fact been very successful in censoring it within their borders. NZ may have quite a ways to go until their internet censorship regime is as effective as China’s great firewall though.
- leereeves 8y ago
  This is a step down that path. I haven't read the manifesto and I have no desire to, but I still fear a government that would imprison me for reading it more than I fear terrorists. Terrorists are rare; such a government is an ever present threat.

by jjcm 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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deleted 8y ago
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ignoramous 8y ago

> That's the thing though - as long as something is banned, it doesn't stay forgotten. Pretty much this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect Also, govt (democratic ones, esp) are notorious for being short-sighted and taking populist measures, so no surprises here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses Imo, what the govt should considering doing (if they haven't already): 1. Weed out rouge elements (sadly, extensive surveillance is one way to achieve this, another would be with help of citizen-journalists/investigators) within the state, and secure immigration points 2. A focused task force to address internal threats and give them a degree of autonomy. 3. A memorial to immortalize the victims. 4. Govt mandated security at places of congregation of all sizes (malls, stations, places of worship, parks). Edit: /s

celticninja 8y ago
*rogue Rouge is french for red and is usually used to describe makeup.
Carpetsmoker 8y ago
So basically to protect freedom we need to create a police state with permanent security everywhere and live in constant fear. Is /r/TopMindsOfHN a thing yet?
- ignoramous 8y ago
  Sorry. I guess the sarcasm was too dry to be obvious? I listed down things that other nation states (NSA? Abu Gharib/Patriot Act? Wall along the Radcliffe Line?) have done in the past in response to persistent danger. And are guilty of taking populist measures at a great expense, sometimes. There's always been such knee-jerk reaction from nation states, that then resort to drastic initiatives partly because they do not understand technologies involved (Secure Golden Key?), or they aren't held accountable as often and get away with a lot (WMDs?). Here's Bruce Schneier on the topic https://youtu.be/GkJCI3_jbtg https://youtu.be/GkJCI3_jbtg
- leereeves 8y ago
  No, because that sub is pure snark and nothing like it belongs here. > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
freshm087 8y ago
In fact, exactly NZ gov't should have continued doing things as usual. This tragedy, while having huge media-multiplied emotional response, is (from POV of rational security) is an absolute outlier. An average Kiwi has probably bigger chance to choke on beefsteak than to be killed by a political weirdo. Few politicians however are able to resist a temptation to pose as a "decisive leader" and play a security theater.

ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago

I disagree. I’d rather it was banned and this shit gets squashed. Yeah it’s still available and people can try seek it out, but they have to seek it out. No one on Facebook will be sharing it on their wall, etc. And this isn’t a one or the other thing, NZ has banned that crap and rallied around the families. A huge amount of money has been raise of which the total is still rising. The whole country stopped on Friday for a national call to prayer followed by 2 minutes silence. Other countries might be making a big deal about the banning but it’s not the key headline here.

freshm087 8y ago
NZ is in a state of collective shock, and, at the moment, apparently a very cool head, and bravery (understanding that you will get massive social pressure, and lots of ugly accusations) needed to stand against censorship. By no means it's a normal situation for a political debare.

javagram 8y ago

> We see Tiananmen Square pop up all the time not because of its major historical significance, but because of the attempts by certain governments to censor it. My understanding is most young Chinese know nothing about Tiananmen Square because the Chinese government has in fact been very successful in censoring it within their borders. NZ may have quite a ways to go until their internet censorship regime is as effective as China’s great firewall though.

leereeves 8y ago
This is a step down that path. I haven't read the manifesto and I have no desire to, but I still fear a government that would imprison me for reading it more than I fear terrorists. Terrorists are rare; such a government is an ever present threat.