5 ms·

I respect iFixit's ideals, but this is just ridiculous. Highlighting the lack of repairability in a MacBook Pro is one thing, but AirPods are a marvel of compac

by _bxg1 8y ago

I respect iFixit's ideals, but this is just ridiculous. Highlighting the lack of repairability in a MacBook Pro is one thing, but AirPods are a marvel of compact engineering. There's barely room for the battery; there is positively no room in there to replace glue with clips or screws so that a few tinkerers can try to fix them at home. Plus, you can replace just the earbuds or the case on its own (it's unlikely you'll break both at the same time) for ~$60.

aarpmcgee 8y ago
AirPods being a technological marvel does not negate the fact that its disposable nature is a pretty big problem. As far as I am concerned, if the environmental cost of the existence of a product is not factored in to its design, it should not exist. This may be a bit of a stretch, but on the same token, K-Cups being super convenient does not negative the fact that they are an ecological nightmare.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  What I'm saying is there's probably no reasonable way, given the current state of the art, to create an equivalent product in a more repairable form. The comparison to k-cups seems overblown, as a person throws away a couple of those a day, whereas AirPods are quality devices (of a similar size) that will last years at the minimum.
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    iFixit rightly makes noise about the pointless unrepairability of some other Apple devices, but this one just feels like they're reaching.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Gasoline weighs about 6 pounds a gallon. It's made from the same stuff as plastic. Landfills aren't perfect, but they aren't an ecological nightmare and there's lots of room for them outside of places like New York City.
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    Landfills absolutely are an ecological nightmare in some parts of the world, and much of it is trash that was shipped in from elsewhere. That your local landfill doesn’t bother you does not mean your trash won’t end up leaching toxic chemicals in to the waterways of people in some far off land.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      I don't put toxic chemicals in my trash though, so there's that.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        You absolutely do though, that's the point. You think that the e-waste you sent to recycling doesn't end up in trash, but you only have to look at places like Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana to see where some supposedly reputable recycling ends up.
    - libraryatnight 8y ago
      It'll likely become more of an issue for people numb to the point as these places refuse more and more of our refuse.
- usaphp 8y ago
  K-cups are created to be thrown away after one use. AirPods are not.
- greedo 8y ago
  It is a stretch. Millions of K-Cups are intentionally disposed of daily. I doubt that more than 100 AirPods are disposed of daily, probably closer to 10-20. That will naturally accelerate as they get towards their end of life, but the comparison is ridiculous.
  - iambateman 8y ago
    If 10 million airpod units had an average lifespan of 5 years, they would be disposed at a rate of 5480/day. There’s no question that K-cups are a bigger ecological problem, though.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  K-cups are absolutely awful for the environment – I'd argue much much worse than Airpods/consumer electronics. Keurig's entire business is built off of throwing plastic away. They even take measures [1] to make sure you can't re-use their pods. And it's not like throwing plastic away is a "necessary evil" of making coffee - no other mainstream method (drip, aeropress, pourover, moka pot, french press) produces waste that isn't compostable. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465578/keurig-locking-down-coffee-makers-to-block-cheap-refills https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465578/keurig-locking-dow...
sandworm101 8y ago
Just 60? Apple sure warps one's perspective on prices. These are just headphones, but at $60 nothing should be considered disposable. That's the daily takehome for a huge number of americans.
- thisacctforreal 8y ago
  disposable != short lifespan
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Yeah it is when there is no other use.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  I didn't say that makes them "disposable". Apple could've forced you to spend another $140 if any part of package broke; instead they allow you to "repair" them by replacing just the part that's broken. That seems like a pretty reasonable middle ground.
sigmar 8y ago
>Plus, you can replace just the earbuds or the case on its own (it's unlikely you'll break both at the same time) for ~$60. this is the exact opposite of iFixit's ideals. What do you want them to do? not talk about this product at all?
- ddingus 8y ago
  Exactly. Some of us avoid things we cannot easily repurpose and or service. IFixit gets to do what they are doing, and I support it 100 percent. Frankly, if what they are doing generates this much controversy? Good. More people thinking reuse, repair, repurpose is fantastic! How can I help?
everdrive 8y ago
I know HN doesn't appreciate this sort of comment, but the idea that Airpods represent some sort of progress is the dumbest idea in the whole world. "Before Airpods, I had to occasionally modify my behavior to avoid pulling on a cord! That effort was abject suffering, and I don' know how I ever got along before!"
- bch 8y ago
  The comment was about engineering marvel though, not lifestyle progress.
hrktb 8y ago
Their reporting of the non repairability seems mostly factual and drama free to me, in what way is it ridiculous or disproportionate ? Also I think it would dishonest to just ignore or brush off these kind of issues for products that we see as marvel of engineering. Any choice has tradeoffs, recognizing the product strengths should go hand in hand with also acknowledging what it sacrifices. For a single customer it might be not worth to do that kind of analysis, but I expect reviews and teardowns to highlight these dark spots we otherwise don’t think about as simple consumers.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  They say it makes them ‘cry’ and it’s a ‘hot mess’.
  - zakki 8y ago
    Because we will see them in millions
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Like cigarette butts
      - pronouncedGod 8y ago
        When I smoked I used a small “pocket can” that was shaped like a trash can to hold my butts until I came back around to a proper garbage can. I then switched to non-filters and, even though they lack the cellulose filter, I still used the can. I hate seeing cigarette butts everywhere. It might be because my first job in high school was sweeping the parking lot.
        ddingus 8y ago
        Man I contributed to that mess. Did not care. Lol, I often will pick them up today. I do not smoke now. Good on you for the can, back then.
ddingus 8y ago
That is a lot of money. They are a marvel, yet a fail on many fronts. Getting rid of that wire is proving super expensive. A phone speaker and great earbuds, that cost $20, and that work well with every audio device I have (some from the 70's and 80's), are a no brainer value wise. No charging. No pairing. No DRM. No losing just one. No, no, no :D Audio just is not worth that level of complexity and hassle. As for the few tinkerers... Lived my life fixing things. I do not plan on changing that. I can find 6 figures of value in that skill without even thinking hard. And frankly? Airpods do not sound as good as my $20 pair of earbuds do. Impressive technically. No question. Value? Dubious on a good day.
- askafriend 8y ago
  This is so wrong that it’s clear that you haven’t tried the product in any significant capacity. No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things.
  - 908087 8y ago
    I would, and I'm on my second set. Battery life sucks, sound quality is mediocre at best. I have a single use case which makes the lack of a cord slightly more convenient, but I won't be replacing them again when this set dies.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    You would be wrong on all points. I have used the product. I've used a fair number of Apple designed earbuds and frankly liked none of them. Apple does not appear to understand how to design for acoustics anywhere near as well as they do other design elements. It's not a bad sound, I would say competent, but that's it. Totally not worth the other negatives. For all the hassles, the things should sound golden. They don't. Sorry. What I find hilarious is just how bent people get when they encounter negative opinions related to Apple products. I like a few Apple products. My 2012 MBP is awesome. Love that computer. Hate most of the other ones for various reasons. It's hit or miss with Apple. Ports matter. Headphone jack matters. SD, all of it. Getting rid of Magsafe was a bummer too. People who really believe in their Airpods need to be secure in that. Trust me, those of us who don't believe are absolutely not gonna be swayed, except... For when Apple does better. They can, should, need to. Tell you what. Go get a set of the earbuds that ship with Samsung flagship phones. These, in fact: https://www.overstock.com/Electronics/2-Pack-AKG-Samsung-Galaxy-Galaxy-Premium-Earphones-Black-For-S8plus-Galaxy-S8-Galaxy-S7-edge-Galaxy-S7-Galaxy-Note-5/22718048/product.html https://www.overstock.com/Electronics/2-Pack-AKG-Samsung-Gal... Fucking amazing. Good, flat response. Almost no internal resonance. Cheap ass, last a very long time, and they work well with most any audio device made in the last, what? 60 plus years? Here's the thing: I like good sound. I like low hassles. I like great audio gear. Wire? Pffft. Non issue. These wireless devices do not yet have the priorities right. It's audio first and foremost. Now, for people who don't care? Great! People who don't mind charging and managing a bunch of shit? Great! But, that's just not me, and I know full well I am not alone in any of that, which makes the statement, "No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things." weak sauce. Really weak, as in perhaps your sample of "no one" needs to be a bit larger. You like the things? Great! I don't. And am more than happy to tell anyone why. Now, should Apple go and do the work that AKG did? Design for replacement batteries, 5 to 10 year life? Yeah, I'll think about another go; otherwise, I just bought 6 EXCELLENT earbuds, for the $60 mentioned as "replacement", and those are probably a 5 to 10 year supply. No joke.
sahaskatta 8y ago
The batteries in the new Samsung Buds are replaceable according to iFixit https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown/120693 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown...
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
You may have noticed the planet is struggling under the impact of plastics, consumerism and other human activity. There is no room as currently designed to fit a screw in there as they were designed to use glue. Had they designed them to be repairable it's unlikely they'd have become huge and useless, just subtly different, perhaps with a tamper proof bolt in the base of each. As I've aged I see steadily less and less consideration for the environment and repair, and more and more greenwashing and press releases about company's environmental credentials. It really is about time people called bullshit more often, and more loudly.
- eugeniub 8y ago
  Is the planet struggling because an average person may buy two AirPods in two years? Or because an average person consumes 220 pounds (100 kg) of plastic in one year? For comparison, one AirPod weighs 0.008 pounds (0.004 kg).
  - GeekyBear 8y ago
    Google could make a much larger environmental impact by requiring that Android licensees stop forcing obsolescence through their refusal to provide security updates for otherwise functional devices. There is no reason why phones with current specs couldn't be supported for at least five years. "You'll get two years of support if you're lucky" is just insane.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    It's less weight than attitude it reveals that concerns me. Time was even micro headphones were a miracle of almost watchmaking. Designing to permit repair and end-of-life disassembly should be standard to permit, and perhaps mandate, end-of-life recycling until the average person consumes no plastic, despite using 20kg.
  - echlebek 8y ago
    Maybe making this particular product more repairable or more recyclable isn't going to save the planet, but the status quo is that consumer goods are disposable and short-lived, and that's the real problem. Keep in mind, the cost of waste of a product is not only the product itself, but also its packaging, marketing materials, etc. Companies know they can make products that will become waste in a short period of time, which increases profitability because people will have to buy things more frequently. The cost of disposal gets pushed onto society, with companies taking little or no responsibility for it.
Yetanfou 8y ago
Wrist watches are marvels of compact engineering. Wrist watches are also repairable. These ear buds are, well, ear buds with integrated batteries. Batteries are known to wear out, this goes double for the smaller versions which are used in this type of application as those don't have much of a power reserve to account for normal wear. If you ask me what a true 'marvel of engineering' in ear bud land would look like it would most certainly not be a glued-together throw-away product like Apple produces. It would have replaceable batteries, most likely screwed to the device with small screws (viz. the aforementioned wrist watches) or using an integral thread. The price Apple asks for these things gives more than enough room for this extra bit of engineering and hardware. The fact that Apple offers a replacement for ~$60 does not change this, the devices will still end up on the scrap heap.

by _bxg1 8y ago

aarpmcgee 8y ago

AirPods being a technological marvel does not negate the fact that its disposable nature is a pretty big problem. As far as I am concerned, if the environmental cost of the existence of a product is not factored in to its design, it should not exist. This may be a bit of a stretch, but on the same token, K-Cups being super convenient does not negative the fact that they are an ecological nightmare.

_bxg1 8y ago
What I'm saying is there's probably no reasonable way, given the current state of the art, to create an equivalent product in a more repairable form. The comparison to k-cups seems overblown, as a person throws away a couple of those a day, whereas AirPods are quality devices (of a similar size) that will last years at the minimum.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  iFixit rightly makes noise about the pointless unrepairability of some other Apple devices, but this one just feels like they're reaching.
maxerickson 8y ago
Gasoline weighs about 6 pounds a gallon. It's made from the same stuff as plastic. Landfills aren't perfect, but they aren't an ecological nightmare and there's lots of room for them outside of places like New York City.
- TaylorAlexander 8y ago
  Landfills absolutely are an ecological nightmare in some parts of the world, and much of it is trash that was shipped in from elsewhere. That your local landfill doesn’t bother you does not mean your trash won’t end up leaching toxic chemicals in to the waterways of people in some far off land.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    I don't put toxic chemicals in my trash though, so there's that.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      You absolutely do though, that's the point. You think that the e-waste you sent to recycling doesn't end up in trash, but you only have to look at places like Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana to see where some supposedly reputable recycling ends up.
  - libraryatnight 8y ago
    It'll likely become more of an issue for people numb to the point as these places refuse more and more of our refuse.
usaphp 8y ago
K-cups are created to be thrown away after one use. AirPods are not.
greedo 8y ago
It is a stretch. Millions of K-Cups are intentionally disposed of daily. I doubt that more than 100 AirPods are disposed of daily, probably closer to 10-20. That will naturally accelerate as they get towards their end of life, but the comparison is ridiculous.
- iambateman 8y ago
  If 10 million airpod units had an average lifespan of 5 years, they would be disposed at a rate of 5480/day. There’s no question that K-cups are a bigger ecological problem, though.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
K-cups are absolutely awful for the environment – I'd argue much much worse than Airpods/consumer electronics. Keurig's entire business is built off of throwing plastic away. They even take measures [1] to make sure you can't re-use their pods. And it's not like throwing plastic away is a "necessary evil" of making coffee - no other mainstream method (drip, aeropress, pourover, moka pot, french press) produces waste that isn't compostable. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465578/keurig-locking-down-coffee-makers-to-block-cheap-refills https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465578/keurig-locking-dow...

sandworm101 8y ago

Just 60? Apple sure warps one's perspective on prices. These are just headphones, but at $60 nothing should be considered disposable. That's the daily takehome for a huge number of americans.

thisacctforreal 8y ago
disposable != short lifespan
- ddingus 8y ago
  Yeah it is when there is no other use.
_bxg1 8y ago
I didn't say that makes them "disposable". Apple could've forced you to spend another $140 if any part of package broke; instead they allow you to "repair" them by replacing just the part that's broken. That seems like a pretty reasonable middle ground.

sigmar 8y ago

>Plus, you can replace just the earbuds or the case on its own (it's unlikely you'll break both at the same time) for ~$60. this is the exact opposite of iFixit's ideals. What do you want them to do? not talk about this product at all?

ddingus 8y ago
Exactly. Some of us avoid things we cannot easily repurpose and or service. IFixit gets to do what they are doing, and I support it 100 percent. Frankly, if what they are doing generates this much controversy? Good. More people thinking reuse, repair, repurpose is fantastic! How can I help?

everdrive 8y ago

I know HN doesn't appreciate this sort of comment, but the idea that Airpods represent some sort of progress is the dumbest idea in the whole world. "Before Airpods, I had to occasionally modify my behavior to avoid pulling on a cord! That effort was abject suffering, and I don' know how I ever got along before!"

bch 8y ago
The comment was about engineering marvel though, not lifestyle progress.

hrktb 8y ago

Their reporting of the non repairability seems mostly factual and drama free to me, in what way is it ridiculous or disproportionate ? Also I think it would dishonest to just ignore or brush off these kind of issues for products that we see as marvel of engineering. Any choice has tradeoffs, recognizing the product strengths should go hand in hand with also acknowledging what it sacrifices. For a single customer it might be not worth to do that kind of analysis, but I expect reviews and teardowns to highlight these dark spots we otherwise don’t think about as simple consumers.

chrisseaton 8y ago
They say it makes them ‘cry’ and it’s a ‘hot mess’.
- zakki 8y ago
  Because we will see them in millions
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Like cigarette butts
    - pronouncedGod 8y ago
      When I smoked I used a small “pocket can” that was shaped like a trash can to hold my butts until I came back around to a proper garbage can. I then switched to non-filters and, even though they lack the cellulose filter, I still used the can. I hate seeing cigarette butts everywhere. It might be because my first job in high school was sweeping the parking lot.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Man I contributed to that mess. Did not care. Lol, I often will pick them up today. I do not smoke now. Good on you for the can, back then.

ddingus 8y ago

That is a lot of money. They are a marvel, yet a fail on many fronts. Getting rid of that wire is proving super expensive. A phone speaker and great earbuds, that cost $20, and that work well with every audio device I have (some from the 70's and 80's), are a no brainer value wise. No charging. No pairing. No DRM. No losing just one. No, no, no :D Audio just is not worth that level of complexity and hassle. As for the few tinkerers... Lived my life fixing things. I do not plan on changing that. I can find 6 figures of value in that skill without even thinking hard. And frankly? Airpods do not sound as good as my $20 pair of earbuds do. Impressive technically. No question. Value? Dubious on a good day.

askafriend 8y ago
This is so wrong that it’s clear that you haven’t tried the product in any significant capacity. No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things.
- 908087 8y ago
  I would, and I'm on my second set. Battery life sucks, sound quality is mediocre at best. I have a single use case which makes the lack of a cord slightly more convenient, but I won't be replacing them again when this set dies.
- ddingus 8y ago
  You would be wrong on all points. I have used the product. I've used a fair number of Apple designed earbuds and frankly liked none of them. Apple does not appear to understand how to design for acoustics anywhere near as well as they do other design elements. It's not a bad sound, I would say competent, but that's it. Totally not worth the other negatives. For all the hassles, the things should sound golden. They don't. Sorry. What I find hilarious is just how bent people get when they encounter negative opinions related to Apple products. I like a few Apple products. My 2012 MBP is awesome. Love that computer. Hate most of the other ones for various reasons. It's hit or miss with Apple. Ports matter. Headphone jack matters. SD, all of it. Getting rid of Magsafe was a bummer too. People who really believe in their Airpods need to be secure in that. Trust me, those of us who don't believe are absolutely not gonna be swayed, except... For when Apple does better. They can, should, need to. Tell you what. Go get a set of the earbuds that ship with Samsung flagship phones. These, in fact: https://www.overstock.com/Electronics/2-Pack-AKG-Samsung-Galaxy-Galaxy-Premium-Earphones-Black-For-S8plus-Galaxy-S8-Galaxy-S7-edge-Galaxy-S7-Galaxy-Note-5/22718048/product.html https://www.overstock.com/Electronics/2-Pack-AKG-Samsung-Gal... Fucking amazing. Good, flat response. Almost no internal resonance. Cheap ass, last a very long time, and they work well with most any audio device made in the last, what? 60 plus years? Here's the thing: I like good sound. I like low hassles. I like great audio gear. Wire? Pffft. Non issue. These wireless devices do not yet have the priorities right. It's audio first and foremost. Now, for people who don't care? Great! People who don't mind charging and managing a bunch of shit? Great! But, that's just not me, and I know full well I am not alone in any of that, which makes the statement, "No one who’s tried the product in a significant capacity would say any of these things." weak sauce. Really weak, as in perhaps your sample of "no one" needs to be a bit larger. You like the things? Great! I don't. And am more than happy to tell anyone why. Now, should Apple go and do the work that AKG did? Design for replacement batteries, 5 to 10 year life? Yeah, I'll think about another go; otherwise, I just bought 6 EXCELLENT earbuds, for the $60 mentioned as "replacement", and those are probably a 5 to 10 year supply. No joke.

sahaskatta 8y ago

The batteries in the new Samsung Buds are replaceable according to iFixit https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown/120693 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown...

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

You may have noticed the planet is struggling under the impact of plastics, consumerism and other human activity. There is no room as currently designed to fit a screw in there as they were designed to use glue. Had they designed them to be repairable it's unlikely they'd have become huge and useless, just subtly different, perhaps with a tamper proof bolt in the base of each. As I've aged I see steadily less and less consideration for the environment and repair, and more and more greenwashing and press releases about company's environmental credentials. It really is about time people called bullshit more often, and more loudly.

eugeniub 8y ago
Is the planet struggling because an average person may buy two AirPods in two years? Or because an average person consumes 220 pounds (100 kg) of plastic in one year? For comparison, one AirPod weighs 0.008 pounds (0.004 kg).
- GeekyBear 8y ago
  Google could make a much larger environmental impact by requiring that Android licensees stop forcing obsolescence through their refusal to provide security updates for otherwise functional devices. There is no reason why phones with current specs couldn't be supported for at least five years. "You'll get two years of support if you're lucky" is just insane.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  It's less weight than attitude it reveals that concerns me. Time was even micro headphones were a miracle of almost watchmaking. Designing to permit repair and end-of-life disassembly should be standard to permit, and perhaps mandate, end-of-life recycling until the average person consumes no plastic, despite using 20kg.
- echlebek 8y ago
  Maybe making this particular product more repairable or more recyclable isn't going to save the planet, but the status quo is that consumer goods are disposable and short-lived, and that's the real problem. Keep in mind, the cost of waste of a product is not only the product itself, but also its packaging, marketing materials, etc. Companies know they can make products that will become waste in a short period of time, which increases profitability because people will have to buy things more frequently. The cost of disposal gets pushed onto society, with companies taking little or no responsibility for it.

Yetanfou 8y ago

Wrist watches are marvels of compact engineering. Wrist watches are also repairable. These ear buds are, well, ear buds with integrated batteries. Batteries are known to wear out, this goes double for the smaller versions which are used in this type of application as those don't have much of a power reserve to account for normal wear. If you ask me what a true 'marvel of engineering' in ear bud land would look like it would most certainly not be a glued-together throw-away product like Apple produces. It would have replaceable batteries, most likely screwed to the device with small screws (viz. the aforementioned wrist watches) or using an integral thread. The price Apple asks for these things gives more than enough room for this extra bit of engineering and hardware. The fact that Apple offers a replacement for ~$60 does not change this, the devices will still end up on the scrap heap.