6 ms·

I find it difficult to be against such a system

by make3 8y ago

thatoneuser 8y ago
It's easy if you believe people should be free to live their lives as they want
- anoncake 8y ago
  Hardly anyone believes that for children.
  - sisu2019 8y ago
    As far as this is concerned children are an extension of their parents. What makes individual liberty such a powerful force is that different paradigms can compete peacefully in the same society and everyone can then see what works and what doesn't. So yeah, parent should be able to absolutely block their kids from games and they should also be able to let their kids play them as much as they want (as long as they still eat and go to school ..) and everything in between.
    - anoncake 8y ago
      Not quite. Being able to test different paradigms is one reason why we protect liberty, but its not the only one. We also do it because people simply value their autonomy and consider it their right. While the state taking away parents control over their children is bad policy when taken too far, IMHO it doesnt infringe on their rights. That would imply that one could have the right to control another person, which is not a thought Im comfortable with.
      - sisu2019 8y ago
        I didn't say it's the only one, but I do think it's big factor in the west's success. And that's what we want: successful problem solving in the space of media consumption for kids and for adults. Parents absolutely have the right and even the duty to raise their children, a lot of which entails telling them what to do and when. If not even the parents have that right then the state, being a group of people, has even less of a right.
        anoncake 8y ago
        That right is, in my opinion, quite different from other rights though. Parents dont have the right to raise their children for their own sake, they have it for the sake of their children. It also isnt primarily a right but a duty, it just doesnt make sense to have a duty to do something you have no right to.
- hakfoo 8y ago
  Okay, putting asbestos underwear on: In most modern societies, we agree that children have limitations on the "people should be free to live their lives as they want" mindset. Otherwise, we'd be letting four year olds subsist solely on candy, hot dogs, and twenty hours a day of the Best of Elsagate. We've traditionally trusted the compromise for that to parents. But parenting is hard. We're running on a mix of science and lore for a lot of it. Even beyond that, a lot of parents may not follow best practices, despite the best of intentions. Then add the too busy/doesn't care/actually incompetent parents. The state has an enormous vested interest in the next generation coming out well-skilled and socially balanced. But they can't put a child development expert into every house in the country 24/7. They've had to trust parents who are spotty at best at their job, because there were limits on how they could intervene. For the first time, we have wildly popular entertainment products that phone home and do remote work as part of normal operation. This makes a technical intervention possible in a way they couldn't do with prior moral panics (TV, comic books, bawdy novels). In some ways, this is actually a tame and tolerant way to deal with the fear of gaming abuse. They're not saying adults can't have games, or even that kids can't-- just restricting usage when you reach a level that implies they're sacrificing something else (school, sleep, or family life) to make the hours. I wonder if a future evolution of this would integrate into directly the schools and the social credit concept-- if you can play Fortnite II: Electric Boogaloo 14 hours a day and somehow maintain straight As, it will let you, but bludgeon your character when your grades slip.
  - tudorconstantin 8y ago
    We can't put an education expert in every home, but we can put all the children in "correct child raising institutions" where they'll follow strict schedules, intense education and balanced diets. So that we'll be sure the kids will be productive elements for the society when they grow up. I bet in a few generations people would start asking questions like "if it wouldn't be the state, who would raise our children?". Joking aside, it's not the state's role to raise our children. It's only role should be to make sure the kids are not abused and that's it.
    - Scipio_Afri 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

I find it difficult to be against such a system

by make3 8y ago

I find it difficult to be against such a system

thatoneuser 8y ago

It's easy if you believe people should be free to live their lives as they want

anoncake 8y ago
Hardly anyone believes that for children.
- sisu2019 8y ago
  As far as this is concerned children are an extension of their parents. What makes individual liberty such a powerful force is that different paradigms can compete peacefully in the same society and everyone can then see what works and what doesn't. So yeah, parent should be able to absolutely block their kids from games and they should also be able to let their kids play them as much as they want (as long as they still eat and go to school ..) and everything in between.
  - anoncake 8y ago
    Not quite. Being able to test different paradigms is one reason why we protect liberty, but its not the only one. We also do it because people simply value their autonomy and consider it their right. While the state taking away parents control over their children is bad policy when taken too far, IMHO it doesnt infringe on their rights. That would imply that one could have the right to control another person, which is not a thought Im comfortable with.
    - sisu2019 8y ago
      I didn't say it's the only one, but I do think it's big factor in the west's success. And that's what we want: successful problem solving in the space of media consumption for kids and for adults. Parents absolutely have the right and even the duty to raise their children, a lot of which entails telling them what to do and when. If not even the parents have that right then the state, being a group of people, has even less of a right.
      - anoncake 8y ago
        That right is, in my opinion, quite different from other rights though. Parents dont have the right to raise their children for their own sake, they have it for the sake of their children. It also isnt primarily a right but a duty, it just doesnt make sense to have a duty to do something you have no right to.
hakfoo 8y ago
Okay, putting asbestos underwear on: In most modern societies, we agree that children have limitations on the "people should be free to live their lives as they want" mindset. Otherwise, we'd be letting four year olds subsist solely on candy, hot dogs, and twenty hours a day of the Best of Elsagate. We've traditionally trusted the compromise for that to parents. But parenting is hard. We're running on a mix of science and lore for a lot of it. Even beyond that, a lot of parents may not follow best practices, despite the best of intentions. Then add the too busy/doesn't care/actually incompetent parents. The state has an enormous vested interest in the next generation coming out well-skilled and socially balanced. But they can't put a child development expert into every house in the country 24/7. They've had to trust parents who are spotty at best at their job, because there were limits on how they could intervene. For the first time, we have wildly popular entertainment products that phone home and do remote work as part of normal operation. This makes a technical intervention possible in a way they couldn't do with prior moral panics (TV, comic books, bawdy novels). In some ways, this is actually a tame and tolerant way to deal with the fear of gaming abuse. They're not saying adults can't have games, or even that kids can't-- just restricting usage when you reach a level that implies they're sacrificing something else (school, sleep, or family life) to make the hours. I wonder if a future evolution of this would integrate into directly the schools and the social credit concept-- if you can play Fortnite II: Electric Boogaloo 14 hours a day and somehow maintain straight As, it will let you, but bludgeon your character when your grades slip.
- tudorconstantin 8y ago
  We can't put an education expert in every home, but we can put all the children in "correct child raising institutions" where they'll follow strict schedules, intense education and balanced diets. So that we'll be sure the kids will be productive elements for the society when they grow up. I bet in a few generations people would start asking questions like "if it wouldn't be the state, who would raise our children?". Joking aside, it's not the state's role to raise our children. It's only role should be to make sure the kids are not abused and that's it.
  - Scipio_Afri 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]