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> an amount that dwarfs the subsidies offered to Amazon one thing I really love about NYC is how easy it is to deflect attention and get what you want exhibit

> an amount that dwarfs the subsidies offered to Amazon one thing I really love about NYC is how easy it is to deflect attention and get what you want exhibit A: "tech workers" make the same amount in NYC as they do in the Bay Area, they fly completely under the radar and the inequality warriors point fingers at finance instead, serving to highlight the fickle nature of an unorganized protest where the cause/perpetuator of inequality is so easily interchangeable to whoever is the richest. Granted, these cities don't really know much about each other's struggles, so you see a lot of the same arguments rehashed and evolve in different ways ie: Austin recently dealt with a cultural appropriation uproar over a "Bodega", and not cultural appropriation from NYC lol, its just whoever is the loudest. exhibit B: Walmart is practically banned from NYC in an effort to save/protect local businesses, while every major, minor, and luxury retailer enjoys larger than life flagship versions of their stores positioned in space constrained Manhattan. exhibit C: The way tax breaks are made relevant news at all. Hudson Yards isn't the only place getting it.

Spooky23 8y ago
Hudson Yards is way more than a standard tax break bonanza. Tax-free City and state authority bonds were issued to finance it. The Amazon deal was all about NYS politics and the changes in leadership in the state legislature.
- caprese 8y ago
  Where there is a will there is a way
- sokoloff 8y ago
  That the bonds are tax-free is a choice by the municipal issuer (because it’s to their advantage to do so). They could issue commercial taxable bonds, but why would they? It would only increase their borrowing costs.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    The point is that unlike in the Amazon deal, this was tax abatement plus revenue bonds held on the government books.
geofft 8y ago
> "tech workers" make the same amount in NYC as they do in the Bay Area, they fly completely under the radar and the inequality warriors point fingers at finance instead As someone in both (my day job is keeping OpenStack working at a hedge fund) and who's been in both job markets: this is because finance actually is the richest. There's literally no point in fixing tech worker salaries in NYC if you're not going to fix finance salaries in NYC. Why is it surprising that the target is the richest? Why do you see that as fickle instead of constant and principled? It would be unprincipled and ideological if people complained about tech salaries in NYC simply because tech is widely disliked, even when there's a bigger target to go after. > Walmart is practically banned from NYC in an effort to save/protect local businesses, while every major, minor, and luxury retailer enjoys larger than life flagship versions of their stores positioned in space constrained Manhattan. I am confused by the juxtaposition of these two claims. Walmart competes with local businesses. Gucci does not. If you want to protect local businesses, not having a Gucci flagship has a qualitatively different effect from not having Walmart. (A place like Uniqlo does compete with local businesses, but I would certainly not call any of the Uniqlo stores in Manhattan "larger than life" - they're barely big enough for purpose, and they're all much smaller than the Walmart in my parents' suburb.)
- caprese 8y ago
  > It would be unprincipled and ideological if people complained about tech salaries in NYC simply because tech is widely disliked, even when there's a bigger target to go after. Target bingo is uncoordinated and dilutive. > this is because finance actually is the richest Exactly. This would really be making fun of the bay area's or anywhere else's ease switching the disdain. It makes it harder to subscribe to one locality's issues masqueraded as the unique behavior of a particular industry.
- caprese 8y ago
  > Walmart competes with local businesses. Gucci does not. Sure, lets go down this rabbit hole separately. What about the Target locations, the massive multi-story Home Depot on 23rd st taking up half a block, Bed Bath & Beyond, Ikea... I was certainly lost on the actual distinction people were making and that extends to you. Whatever permitting process was involved flew right past anyone that cares passionately about this topic in support of local.
cgb223 8y ago
> "tech workers" make the same amount in NYC as they do in the Bay Area Is the housing any cheaper? If so I'm moving
- notyourday 8y ago
  2400 sq feet two story 3 bd/2ba apartment with 30 minutes commute to Google via subway $4k/mo
  - caprese 8y ago
    maybe in Hoboken on the New Jersey side??? I mean its a viable option but people don't generally talk about it like its a viable option in public? Maybe the west side of the Bronx on the express train?
    - notyourday 8y ago
      Brooklyn. Off the L.
- caprese 8y ago
  The housing is cheaper currently, the food is/can be cheaper. More transportation options exist. Taxes are mostly the same. Activities within city limits are much more numerous, varied, and unique than SF or any city in the bay area. The greater area having attractions too.
- theyoungwolf 8y ago
  think the bay still pays more

Spooky23 8y ago

Hudson Yards is way more than a standard tax break bonanza. Tax-free City and state authority bonds were issued to finance it. The Amazon deal was all about NYS politics and the changes in leadership in the state legislature.

caprese 8y ago
Where there is a will there is a way
sokoloff 8y ago
That the bonds are tax-free is a choice by the municipal issuer (because it’s to their advantage to do so). They could issue commercial taxable bonds, but why would they? It would only increase their borrowing costs.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  The point is that unlike in the Amazon deal, this was tax abatement plus revenue bonds held on the government books.

geofft 8y ago

> "tech workers" make the same amount in NYC as they do in the Bay Area, they fly completely under the radar and the inequality warriors point fingers at finance instead As someone in both (my day job is keeping OpenStack working at a hedge fund) and who's been in both job markets: this is because finance actually is the richest. There's literally no point in fixing tech worker salaries in NYC if you're not going to fix finance salaries in NYC. Why is it surprising that the target is the richest? Why do you see that as fickle instead of constant and principled? It would be unprincipled and ideological if people complained about tech salaries in NYC simply because tech is widely disliked, even when there's a bigger target to go after. > Walmart is practically banned from NYC in an effort to save/protect local businesses, while every major, minor, and luxury retailer enjoys larger than life flagship versions of their stores positioned in space constrained Manhattan. I am confused by the juxtaposition of these two claims. Walmart competes with local businesses. Gucci does not. If you want to protect local businesses, not having a Gucci flagship has a qualitatively different effect from not having Walmart. (A place like Uniqlo does compete with local businesses, but I would certainly not call any of the Uniqlo stores in Manhattan "larger than life" - they're barely big enough for purpose, and they're all much smaller than the Walmart in my parents' suburb.)

caprese 8y ago
> It would be unprincipled and ideological if people complained about tech salaries in NYC simply because tech is widely disliked, even when there's a bigger target to go after. Target bingo is uncoordinated and dilutive. > this is because finance actually is the richest Exactly. This would really be making fun of the bay area's or anywhere else's ease switching the disdain. It makes it harder to subscribe to one locality's issues masqueraded as the unique behavior of a particular industry.
caprese 8y ago
> Walmart competes with local businesses. Gucci does not. Sure, lets go down this rabbit hole separately. What about the Target locations, the massive multi-story Home Depot on 23rd st taking up half a block, Bed Bath & Beyond, Ikea... I was certainly lost on the actual distinction people were making and that extends to you. Whatever permitting process was involved flew right past anyone that cares passionately about this topic in support of local.

cgb223 8y ago

> "tech workers" make the same amount in NYC as they do in the Bay Area Is the housing any cheaper? If so I'm moving

notyourday 8y ago
2400 sq feet two story 3 bd/2ba apartment with 30 minutes commute to Google via subway $4k/mo
- caprese 8y ago
  maybe in Hoboken on the New Jersey side??? I mean its a viable option but people don't generally talk about it like its a viable option in public? Maybe the west side of the Bronx on the express train?
  - notyourday 8y ago
    Brooklyn. Off the L.
caprese 8y ago
The housing is cheaper currently, the food is/can be cheaper. More transportation options exist. Taxes are mostly the same. Activities within city limits are much more numerous, varied, and unique than SF or any city in the bay area. The greater area having attractions too.
theyoungwolf 8y ago
think the bay still pays more