4 ms·

Yes. That is my major concern. In fact, it has already happened! We have already Greece (with its China owned ports) blocking an EU statement: https://www.reut

Yes. That is my major concern. In fact, it has already happened! We have already Greece (with its China owned ports) blocking an EU statement: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-un-rights/greece-blocks-eu-statement-on-china-human-rights-at-u-n-idUSKBN1990FP https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-un-rights/greece-block...

bilbo0s 8y ago
In fairness, from the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the EU thing hasn't worked out terribly well for their homeland. In the West what we need is to restructure our facilities such that if you participate you will prosper. We need for everyone to prosper. Not necessarily equally, but what happened to Greece went beyond simply not prospering as much as other nations. It was legitimately negatively impacted. (A lot self inflicted, but a lot inflicted by the structure of Western trade facilities as well.) Having mentioned all that, I grant you, having all parties prosper at EU scale is a little difficult to pull off.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  We? Greece's prosperity is Greece's responsibility. That's where the buck stops.
- makomk 8y ago
  Also, the whole reason Greek ports are owned by China in the first place is that Germany forced the Greek government to sell them off to the highest bidder as part of their great economic fucking-over of Greece. So it's hard to have a huge amount of sympathy if this causes headaches for the core EU states.
  - eastendguy 8y ago
    ...or maybe the reason Greece does not have enough money is because rich Greek don't pay their taxes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece#Lagarde_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece#Lagarde_l...
  - BurningFrog 8y ago
    Germany only "forced" Greece in the sense that they didn't pay Greece's debts for them.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      And in many other ways, starting from the ECU era, but that's too subtle for modern readers...
    - sampo 8y ago
      > Germany only "forced" Greece in the sense that they didn't pay Greece's debts for them. Germany (and France) also knowingly gave Greece lots of loans, when it was obvious to everyone that Greece will never be able to pay them all back.
      - BurningFrog 8y ago
        Germany the country, or private german banks?
        sampo 8y ago
        German banks.
- sampo 8y ago
  > In fairness, from the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the EU thing hasn't worked out terribly well for their homeland. From the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the Greece thing hasn't worked out terribly well either. > what we need is to restructure our facilities such that if you participate you will prosper EU doesn't, yet at least, have enough power to take over whole countries then the country's government is shortsighted and is running their own country into a long term ruin for some short term temporary wins.
- mpweiher 8y ago
  > [for Greeks] EU thing hasn't worked out What didn't work out for Greeks was their corrupt politicians/elites and lack of sufficient oversight, including by EU institutions. All sorts of requirements that all EU members have to meet were never enforced for Greece. From the time Greece joined the Euro (by cheating) to the start of the financial crisis, Greek GDP skyrocketed 2.3x. That's astounding, and pretty much unheard of. Of course it wasn't real, because there were no corresponding improvements in Greek economic efficiency or productivity. I wrote about this at the time: https://blog.metaobject.com/2015/07/greek-choices-german-perspective.html https://blog.metaobject.com/2015/07/greek-choices-german-per...

bilbo0s 8y ago

In fairness, from the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the EU thing hasn't worked out terribly well for their homeland. In the West what we need is to restructure our facilities such that if you participate you will prosper. We need for everyone to prosper. Not necessarily equally, but what happened to Greece went beyond simply not prospering as much as other nations. It was legitimately negatively impacted. (A lot self inflicted, but a lot inflicted by the structure of Western trade facilities as well.) Having mentioned all that, I grant you, having all parties prosper at EU scale is a little difficult to pull off.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
We? Greece's prosperity is Greece's responsibility. That's where the buck stops.
makomk 8y ago
Also, the whole reason Greek ports are owned by China in the first place is that Germany forced the Greek government to sell them off to the highest bidder as part of their great economic fucking-over of Greece. So it's hard to have a huge amount of sympathy if this causes headaches for the core EU states.
- eastendguy 8y ago
  ...or maybe the reason Greece does not have enough money is because rich Greek don't pay their taxes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece#Lagarde_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece#Lagarde_l...
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  Germany only "forced" Greece in the sense that they didn't pay Greece's debts for them.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    And in many other ways, starting from the ECU era, but that's too subtle for modern readers...
  - sampo 8y ago
    > Germany only "forced" Greece in the sense that they didn't pay Greece's debts for them. Germany (and France) also knowingly gave Greece lots of loans, when it was obvious to everyone that Greece will never be able to pay them all back.
    - BurningFrog 8y ago
      Germany the country, or private german banks?
      - sampo 8y ago
        German banks.
sampo 8y ago
> In fairness, from the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the EU thing hasn't worked out terribly well for their homeland. From the perspective of the average Greek citizen, the Greece thing hasn't worked out terribly well either. > what we need is to restructure our facilities such that if you participate you will prosper EU doesn't, yet at least, have enough power to take over whole countries then the country's government is shortsighted and is running their own country into a long term ruin for some short term temporary wins.
mpweiher 8y ago
> [for Greeks] EU thing hasn't worked out What didn't work out for Greeks was their corrupt politicians/elites and lack of sufficient oversight, including by EU institutions. All sorts of requirements that all EU members have to meet were never enforced for Greece. From the time Greece joined the Euro (by cheating) to the start of the financial crisis, Greek GDP skyrocketed 2.3x. That's astounding, and pretty much unheard of. Of course it wasn't real, because there were no corresponding improvements in Greek economic efficiency or productivity. I wrote about this at the time: https://blog.metaobject.com/2015/07/greek-choices-german-perspective.html https://blog.metaobject.com/2015/07/greek-choices-german-per...