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"Creepy" seems judgmental. Many (most? all?) single, heterosexual men are somewhat preoccupied with how to be attractive to women (the reverse is also true).

"Creepy" seems judgmental. Many (most? all?) single, heterosexual men are somewhat preoccupied with how to be attractive to women (the reverse is also true). Is this news to you? I also have a negative reaction to you speculating about how "bleak" his life is. I see this project as an attempt at absolute honesty. And if we're being honest, doesn't everyone's life contain a fair amount of bleakness? We all have insecurities. We all suffer tragedies. We're all wrong about various things. Your comment seems basically uncharitable. I wouldn't attempt to be honest about "everything I know" publicly, on the internet. But I think a little charity is in order towards those who do make that attempt.

haukilup 8y ago
I really connected with your comment, and it mirrors my personal attitude. Particularly this part: > I see this project as an attempt at absolute honesty. And if we're being honest, doesn't everyone's life contain a fair amount of bleakness? We all have insecurities. We all suffer tragedies. We're all wrong about various things. It is difficult to be genuine in this world, at least for me. I am afraid of people's judgements, whether real or imagined. It takes a lot of courage on the part of the OP to put out this sort of work, opening themselves and their beliefs to the scrutiny of anyone who chooses to read it.
tnolet 8y ago
Yes, it's judgemental. This is a discussion forum and this is my view on it, this is how I "judge" it. But honestly, I'm all for weird & quirky. However, my response to reading this post and the blog/wiki was very different than some of the more positive responses here. Ergo, the counter argument. I didn't get the positive weird/quirky feeling, rather the opposite.
- leftyted 8y ago
  Imagine a student has finished reading something they wrote in front of their creative writing class. Someone raises their hand and responds with "Wow that was creepy. Your life must be pretty bleak". Of course you're entitled to those thoughts, but I think it's a good idea to couch them differently or at least to get into the reason why you had that reaction. I can understand a negative reaction to a project like this. There's some amount of narcissism involved in writing down everything I know and then publishing it. There's also some amount of narcissism involved in writing anything at all and assuming that other people will be interested in it. There's also narcissism in me reacting negatively to your comment and then criticizing your post, as if I have something worthwhile that I want to transmit to you. Yeah, yeah: "All is vanity". But we want people to write things down and share them, right? We want people to communicate, say what they think, and risk being wrong or creepy, right? My general thoughts are, when criticizing something something like this, err on the side of charity. Negative reactions are fine, but couch them and explain them.
- dTal 8y ago
  I can understand the "ick" factor - putting this much of oneself online, without any contextual filter, embodies a level of intimacy unusual with strangers. I don't think it's weird to find it discomfiting seeing notes about machine learning side by side with relationship advice. It feels like a bit much from one guy. But I think it's very unfair to say it paints a very bleak picture of his life. I jumped straight to the Seduction section after your comment, half-expecting some kind of PUA crap. But it's just filled with the kind of solid advice you get from your dad. Maintain eye contact. Don't slouch. Be honest and genuine. Compliment effort, not intrinsic beauty. Flirt with body language and small amounts of touch, but don't be aggressive. It's all pretty standard, solid stuff.
  - gdy 8y ago
    "Maintain eye contact." Well, you naturally want to look a woman in the eyes if you are genuinely attracted to her, it's hard to resist. If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one. The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine. The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life.
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      "The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine. The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life." Did you read the same part as I? " the most important thing in any kind of relationship is honesty. In regards to seduction it is being honest with your intentions." And the part about eye contact is not about simulating feelings, it is about what to focus for (those who are insecure), if you want to to get in deeper contact.
    - Faark 8y ago
      > If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one. Or your path through life didn't teach you prevailing mating rituals. That "it comes natural" narrative is bullshit. Sure, will be the case most of the time. But, you know, human experiences are on a wide spectrum, with many of them fucked up in some way or another. And thus a lot of people can greatly benefit from finding help to improve themselves and thus their mental health. I'd generally consider this a good thing. Especially on such an important topics as finding a significant other. It's great you apparently naturally learned communication protocols regarding flirting / body language / etc. And yes, PUA stuff can quickly become toxic and not be to the benefit of all involved. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And you implying everyone who isn't a natural or wants to get better must be "simulating feelings" is just... disappointing.

haukilup 8y ago

I really connected with your comment, and it mirrors my personal attitude. Particularly this part: > I see this project as an attempt at absolute honesty. And if we're being honest, doesn't everyone's life contain a fair amount of bleakness? We all have insecurities. We all suffer tragedies. We're all wrong about various things. It is difficult to be genuine in this world, at least for me. I am afraid of people's judgements, whether real or imagined. It takes a lot of courage on the part of the OP to put out this sort of work, opening themselves and their beliefs to the scrutiny of anyone who chooses to read it.

tnolet 8y ago

Yes, it's judgemental. This is a discussion forum and this is my view on it, this is how I "judge" it. But honestly, I'm all for weird & quirky. However, my response to reading this post and the blog/wiki was very different than some of the more positive responses here. Ergo, the counter argument. I didn't get the positive weird/quirky feeling, rather the opposite.

leftyted 8y ago
Imagine a student has finished reading something they wrote in front of their creative writing class. Someone raises their hand and responds with "Wow that was creepy. Your life must be pretty bleak". Of course you're entitled to those thoughts, but I think it's a good idea to couch them differently or at least to get into the reason why you had that reaction. I can understand a negative reaction to a project like this. There's some amount of narcissism involved in writing down everything I know and then publishing it. There's also some amount of narcissism involved in writing anything at all and assuming that other people will be interested in it. There's also narcissism in me reacting negatively to your comment and then criticizing your post, as if I have something worthwhile that I want to transmit to you. Yeah, yeah: "All is vanity". But we want people to write things down and share them, right? We want people to communicate, say what they think, and risk being wrong or creepy, right? My general thoughts are, when criticizing something something like this, err on the side of charity. Negative reactions are fine, but couch them and explain them.
dTal 8y ago
I can understand the "ick" factor - putting this much of oneself online, without any contextual filter, embodies a level of intimacy unusual with strangers. I don't think it's weird to find it discomfiting seeing notes about machine learning side by side with relationship advice. It feels like a bit much from one guy. But I think it's very unfair to say it paints a very bleak picture of his life. I jumped straight to the Seduction section after your comment, half-expecting some kind of PUA crap. But it's just filled with the kind of solid advice you get from your dad. Maintain eye contact. Don't slouch. Be honest and genuine. Compliment effort, not intrinsic beauty. Flirt with body language and small amounts of touch, but don't be aggressive. It's all pretty standard, solid stuff.
- gdy 8y ago
  "Maintain eye contact." Well, you naturally want to look a woman in the eyes if you are genuinely attracted to her, it's hard to resist. If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one. The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine. The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life.
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    "The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine. The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life." Did you read the same part as I? " the most important thing in any kind of relationship is honesty. In regards to seduction it is being honest with your intentions." And the part about eye contact is not about simulating feelings, it is about what to focus for (those who are insecure), if you want to to get in deeper contact.
  - Faark 8y ago
    > If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one. Or your path through life didn't teach you prevailing mating rituals. That "it comes natural" narrative is bullshit. Sure, will be the case most of the time. But, you know, human experiences are on a wide spectrum, with many of them fucked up in some way or another. And thus a lot of people can greatly benefit from finding help to improve themselves and thus their mental health. I'd generally consider this a good thing. Especially on such an important topics as finding a significant other. It's great you apparently naturally learned communication protocols regarding flirting / body language / etc. And yes, PUA stuff can quickly become toxic and not be to the benefit of all involved. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And you implying everyone who isn't a natural or wants to get better must be "simulating feelings" is just... disappointing.