4 ms·

Well, thats kind of a good thing, right? - They probably made everything safe. - They probably made everyone healthy through good diet, hygiene, medical care et

Well, thats kind of a good thing, right? - They probably made everything safe. - They probably made everyone healthy through good diet, hygiene, medical care etc. So whats left? Isn't suicide an acceptable way to die in Japan?

gcb0 8y ago
found the optimistic
analognoise 8y ago
I had to read your comment like 4 times to get what you're trying to say - you mean that there's so little chance of dying from something else (violence, disease, etc) that something that's really difficult to control and relatively rare is the most common cause of death (suicide), right?
- youeseh 8y ago
  Yup!
- mirimir 8y ago
  TFA doesn't provide enough information to know whether the suicide rate is unusually high, or other causes are unusually low. What it says about causes of death for children aged 10 to 14: suicide: 22.9% cancer: 22.7% accidents: 11.7% In the US, the major causes of death among children and adolescents are motor vehicle crashes and firearm injuries, and then cancers.[0] So maybe, with somewhat less motor vehicles and far less firearms, the suicide rate in Japan is unusual. Maybe a Japanese speaker could find the actual data. 0) https://sci-hub.tw/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754 https://sci-hub.tw/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754
  - Ultramanoid 8y ago
    I'd be very suspicious of the 'accidents' section and would like to see detailed data about it myself. Many people run over by trains ( to mention a relatively common occurrence in Tokyo ) are put in the 'accidents' statistic chart as well, even when it is no such thing in some cases, but a clear, deliberate suicidal act. I speak from personal experience, and not just once. For many reasons, even though it's obvious for everyone and there might even be witnesses to the event, better to avoid the stigma. Likewise in Real Estate companies having to disclose such events in their properties. Much easier to deal with an 'accident' than a 'suicide' in an otherwise perfectly good apartment. The issue is probably underreported in every demographic, children and pre-teens included.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      I suspect that many motor vehicle and firearms "accidents" are actually suicides. Maybe not overt, but in a "death wish" sense. I was like that a lot in my teens and 20s. And even more recently, while I was taking SSRIs.
  - ItsOk4Be 8y ago
    What happens when you control for race? I imagine when you control for white terrorists, the firearm deaths drop to near zero.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
From what I have read, suicide is an issue for high school students in Japan due to extreme performance pressure. As I understand it, they have 220 school days per year versus 180 in the US and they are expected to join study groups and the like "voluntarily," which de facto eats up a lot of their remaining free time. I think the most charitable read it can be given is that a densely populated island nation has innate performance pressure. If you don't creatively squeeze every drop from the local resources, you face a population collapse. The high pressure culture is a attempt to mitigate those things. I do get your point and I didn't downvote you. But I think you are probably missing this piece of the puzzle.
- rurban 8y ago
  But this doesn't explain it all. China and Korea has the same extreme amount of school pressure on its children, but their suicide rates don't match up. Bullying and racism is also blatant in Korea, also overlong work hours. It must be correlated more to the stricter society rules there. It's also a much older society than the other two.
  - PurpleRamen 8y ago
    South korea has a high suicide-rate. It's the 10th highest in the world, 20 places above japan. According to wikipedia[0] suicide among children seems to be even higher than in japan. Though im not sure whether both compare the same context of numbers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#/media/File:2015_Cause_of_death_by_age_in_South_Korea.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#/media/...
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I wasn't pretending to explain it all. I was merely saying that it isn't as simple as "It's all good news -- it's a leading cause of death because it's a utopian ideal where everything else has been largely solved." I know very little about it and I'm aware of this element of pressure contributing to the high suicide rate for teens. So it's no doubt more complicated.
  - SpikeDad 8y ago

gcb0 8y ago

found the optimistic

analognoise 8y ago

I had to read your comment like 4 times to get what you're trying to say - you mean that there's so little chance of dying from something else (violence, disease, etc) that something that's really difficult to control and relatively rare is the most common cause of death (suicide), right?

youeseh 8y ago
Yup!
mirimir 8y ago
TFA doesn't provide enough information to know whether the suicide rate is unusually high, or other causes are unusually low. What it says about causes of death for children aged 10 to 14: suicide: 22.9% cancer: 22.7% accidents: 11.7% In the US, the major causes of death among children and adolescents are motor vehicle crashes and firearm injuries, and then cancers.[0] So maybe, with somewhat less motor vehicles and far less firearms, the suicide rate in Japan is unusual. Maybe a Japanese speaker could find the actual data. 0) https://sci-hub.tw/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754 https://sci-hub.tw/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754
- Ultramanoid 8y ago
  I'd be very suspicious of the 'accidents' section and would like to see detailed data about it myself. Many people run over by trains ( to mention a relatively common occurrence in Tokyo ) are put in the 'accidents' statistic chart as well, even when it is no such thing in some cases, but a clear, deliberate suicidal act. I speak from personal experience, and not just once. For many reasons, even though it's obvious for everyone and there might even be witnesses to the event, better to avoid the stigma. Likewise in Real Estate companies having to disclose such events in their properties. Much easier to deal with an 'accident' than a 'suicide' in an otherwise perfectly good apartment. The issue is probably underreported in every demographic, children and pre-teens included.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    I suspect that many motor vehicle and firearms "accidents" are actually suicides. Maybe not overt, but in a "death wish" sense. I was like that a lot in my teens and 20s. And even more recently, while I was taking SSRIs.
- ItsOk4Be 8y ago
  What happens when you control for race? I imagine when you control for white terrorists, the firearm deaths drop to near zero.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

From what I have read, suicide is an issue for high school students in Japan due to extreme performance pressure. As I understand it, they have 220 school days per year versus 180 in the US and they are expected to join study groups and the like "voluntarily," which de facto eats up a lot of their remaining free time. I think the most charitable read it can be given is that a densely populated island nation has innate performance pressure. If you don't creatively squeeze every drop from the local resources, you face a population collapse. The high pressure culture is a attempt to mitigate those things. I do get your point and I didn't downvote you. But I think you are probably missing this piece of the puzzle.

rurban 8y ago
But this doesn't explain it all. China and Korea has the same extreme amount of school pressure on its children, but their suicide rates don't match up. Bullying and racism is also blatant in Korea, also overlong work hours. It must be correlated more to the stricter society rules there. It's also a much older society than the other two.
- PurpleRamen 8y ago
  South korea has a high suicide-rate. It's the 10th highest in the world, 20 places above japan. According to wikipedia[0] suicide among children seems to be even higher than in japan. Though im not sure whether both compare the same context of numbers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#/media/File:2015_Cause_of_death_by_age_in_South_Korea.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#/media/...
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I wasn't pretending to explain it all. I was merely saying that it isn't as simple as "It's all good news -- it's a leading cause of death because it's a utopian ideal where everything else has been largely solved." I know very little about it and I'm aware of this element of pressure contributing to the high suicide rate for teens. So it's no doubt more complicated.
- SpikeDad 8y ago