8 ms·

Apple's lineup is getting so confusing. The iPad Mini is praised by a lot of Apple enthusiasts but for me it just adds more chaos to their product lineup. Which

by emsy 8y ago

Apple's lineup is getting so confusing. The iPad Mini is praised by a lot of Apple enthusiasts but for me it just adds more chaos to their product lineup. Which tablet supports which pen? Can I connect my iPad to my Macbook using the included cables? Do I charge with USB-C or lightning? Does my device support 3D touch? What's the difference between an iPad and an iPad Air? What's the difference between the Macbook and the Macbook Air and why is the Air thicker? Does my Mac have a T2 chip (the new iMacs don't). Can I get my device of choice with 128GB (only the XR, not the XS). There's too much segmentation and I think it's appropriate to ask whether this would've happened under Steve. If I can't keep up with this mess, how do they expect non-tech people to do so?

fumar 8y ago
I do see your point on increased SKUs. I can't afford the pro line across the entire Apple suite. Using price alone, I am guided to the Air or non-pro products. I am sure some folks are only looking at the base core line. Again price is the guide here. As a consumer, I am not really looking at the iMac Pro, Macbook Pros, iPad Pros thus I don't feel the increase in segmentation.
chipotle_coyote 8y ago
I would argue that the problem with the MacBook line currently is that there's not enough segmentation. The 13" non-Touchbar MacBook Pro and the new Air are confusingly similar, the 12" MacBook seems like it was supposed to have replaced the Air but is now just hanging around shuffling its feet awkwardly, the old non-retina Air is also still hanging around just so they can say they have a laptop for $999, etc. The iPad lineup to me doesn't seem particularly confusing at all, other than perhaps the naming. There's pretty clear differentiation across the products and price points. I'll be honest, I think some of your questions are deliberately overstated; I think Apple expects "non-tech people" aren't ripping their hair out over the difference between Lighting and USB-C, because they look at the charging cable that came with their new iThing and can pretty easily figure out which end goes into the iThing and which end goes into the wall socket. Most people don't connect their iPads to their MacBooks. Most people shrug at the weird naming. These are mostly tech pundit problems. I would love it if the MacBook lineup could be as clear and non-stupid as the iPad lineup again. I think it's appropriate to ask whether this would've happened under Steve. There are certainly things Apple has done in the last five years that make me ask that question, from the Touchbar to the butterfly keyboard to the way iOS's text editing controls, especially with external keyboards, are still shit compared to the Mac after nearly a decade. "But the Air is thicker!" is...just not one of them.
- emsy 8y ago
  Some problems might be overstated. But I recently had to explain to my cousin the Macbook lineup and how she connects her devices, so it's not just made up. I agree, they should make more distinct models. The current line up is still cleaner than probably any phone/laptop vendor's but also the worst I've seen from Apple and I don't think the reason is that they offer more products than ever.
  - csydas 8y ago
    Well, let's not mince words here -- The new Air was released to capitalize on the popularity of the Air name. I am still working on a mid-2012 MacBook Air (this very post), and it serves me extremely well. That's 7 years almost on the same machine and the only application that gives me any trouble is Microsoft Teams, but even on my Windows desktop Teams runs like a drunk sloth, so I don't even consider it a fault. Apple's only mistake with the new Air, IMO, is not keeping the old keyboard. I'm right on the verge of needing a new laptop and I'm eagerly looking at a MacBook Air 2018; the keyboard gives me pause, just because it's different than what I'm used to. But the Air name alone, the form factor, and how it's built is basically perfect for me. It does everything I need and then some without making me wait. As to which you should be choosing though...that is a tough one. The MBP line doesn't feel as unique as it used to, as the price point is just too high for me to justify it to anyone, and the low-end MBPs are basically just heavier MacBook Airs.
    - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
      I have a 13" MacBook Pro (non-Touchbar), the computer that kind of seemed like "the new MacBook Air" before there was actually, well, a new MacBook Air, and...honestly, I don't think the new keyboard is that bad. I don't love it, by any stretch, but it's something you can get used to, and the slight redesign in the new Air should make it a bit more resilient. (I wouldn't be surprised to see a new keyboard design roll out across some Mac laptops as early as this year, but if it does, it won't come to the Air for a while. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the new design is still optimized for extreme thinness.)
    - 8y ago
yoz-y 8y ago
I think that the iPad lineup is pretty okay currently. You have the iPad which is the cheapest, Air is lighter and Mini is smaller. They all use lightning and support the Pecil 1. Pro hardware has USB-C, faceid and supports Pencil 2. None of them has 3D touch. Mac lineup tho... makes less sense.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  Is the air lighter? Why is it lighter? Does that mean it is missing features? Makes zero sense to me.
  - yoz-y 8y ago
    Much like sports cars, computers get more expensive when they get lighter. I don't actually know if Air is lighter per se, but it is thinner thanks to the laminated screen. I think it is kind of similar for macbooks now, if there is a suffix, it means it is somehow better than the base model. (although macbook Air is larger than a macbook... which is weird)
    - rorykoehler 8y ago
      I honestly only know that the pro is more powerful. I don't get the rest of the lineup. I don't get why the new air isn't a macbook (or vice versa) for example. They seem to occupy the same space. Added to that, imo, the macbook is the best industrial design of any laptop ever released and the air wedge shape the worst recent mac's but they decided to revive it for some reason. They should have just made a bigger macbook. Their product line up is a disjointed mess.
      - yoz-y 8y ago
        I too think that on macs the air should be macbook and vice versa. However then it runs into the issue that classic macbooks have really slow processors whereas the air is faster. At least on the iPad side the Air comes only with benefits.
- 8y ago
m463 8y ago
An old macbook air screen died, so to upgrade to a new macbook air I needed a bunch of dongles and cables (expensive). (I believe usb-c to tb2 dongle + tb2 cable) Upgrading an older machine required multiple nested dongles to get to firewire.
ksec 8y ago
Well it is very clear now Apple wants the Air brand name to be Mid Range. So Pro > Air > Original ( MacBook / iPad ). MacBook Pro > MacBook Air > Macbook iPad Pro > iPad Air > iPad ( The Mini actually fits into the Mid Range ) It is similar on iPhone, where I expect Apple to drop the number from naming scheme and just go with iPhone S > iPhone R > iPhone Basically Apple is transition all of their product line into three different segment, each with different display size and prices. And I guess these transition will make a lot more sense once the 2019 and 2020 product are out.
oflannabhra 8y ago
I see the “What about Steve” comment get posted every time there is a complaint about Apple’s lineup. The strongest rebuttal to this is the iPod line [0], circa 2005 or 2008. Apple has 5-6 full-size models and 5 models of smaller iPods. Apple has always expanded their lineups to reach the maximum possible market, going both down and up for price points. I also think you have how customers buy products totally backwards. Apple makes products for a price point and margin. Everything works back from that. Large differentiators are size and power. No one first thinks “I want 128 GB of storage, what are my options.” That’s not to say that Apple’s current lineup doesn’t have issues, or that there is no confusion amongst models. You correctly point out several of those. I’d say much of the current confusion in the line has to do with maintaining price points and preparing for ARM in the coming years. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#Timeline_of_full-size_iPod_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#Timeline_of_full-...

by emsy 8y ago

fumar 8y ago

I do see your point on increased SKUs. I can't afford the pro line across the entire Apple suite. Using price alone, I am guided to the Air or non-pro products. I am sure some folks are only looking at the base core line. Again price is the guide here. As a consumer, I am not really looking at the iMac Pro, Macbook Pros, iPad Pros thus I don't feel the increase in segmentation.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago

I would argue that the problem with the MacBook line currently is that there's not enough segmentation. The 13" non-Touchbar MacBook Pro and the new Air are confusingly similar, the 12" MacBook seems like it was supposed to have replaced the Air but is now just hanging around shuffling its feet awkwardly, the old non-retina Air is also still hanging around just so they can say they have a laptop for $999, etc. The iPad lineup to me doesn't seem particularly confusing at all, other than perhaps the naming. There's pretty clear differentiation across the products and price points. I'll be honest, I think some of your questions are deliberately overstated; I think Apple expects "non-tech people" aren't ripping their hair out over the difference between Lighting and USB-C, because they look at the charging cable that came with their new iThing and can pretty easily figure out which end goes into the iThing and which end goes into the wall socket. Most people don't connect their iPads to their MacBooks. Most people shrug at the weird naming. These are mostly tech pundit problems. I would love it if the MacBook lineup could be as clear and non-stupid as the iPad lineup again. I think it's appropriate to ask whether this would've happened under Steve. There are certainly things Apple has done in the last five years that make me ask that question, from the Touchbar to the butterfly keyboard to the way iOS's text editing controls, especially with external keyboards, are still shit compared to the Mac after nearly a decade. "But the Air is thicker!" is...just not one of them.

emsy 8y ago
Some problems might be overstated. But I recently had to explain to my cousin the Macbook lineup and how she connects her devices, so it's not just made up. I agree, they should make more distinct models. The current line up is still cleaner than probably any phone/laptop vendor's but also the worst I've seen from Apple and I don't think the reason is that they offer more products than ever.
- csydas 8y ago
  Well, let's not mince words here -- The new Air was released to capitalize on the popularity of the Air name. I am still working on a mid-2012 MacBook Air (this very post), and it serves me extremely well. That's 7 years almost on the same machine and the only application that gives me any trouble is Microsoft Teams, but even on my Windows desktop Teams runs like a drunk sloth, so I don't even consider it a fault. Apple's only mistake with the new Air, IMO, is not keeping the old keyboard. I'm right on the verge of needing a new laptop and I'm eagerly looking at a MacBook Air 2018; the keyboard gives me pause, just because it's different than what I'm used to. But the Air name alone, the form factor, and how it's built is basically perfect for me. It does everything I need and then some without making me wait. As to which you should be choosing though...that is a tough one. The MBP line doesn't feel as unique as it used to, as the price point is just too high for me to justify it to anyone, and the low-end MBPs are basically just heavier MacBook Airs.
  - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
    I have a 13" MacBook Pro (non-Touchbar), the computer that kind of seemed like "the new MacBook Air" before there was actually, well, a new MacBook Air, and...honestly, I don't think the new keyboard is that bad. I don't love it, by any stretch, but it's something you can get used to, and the slight redesign in the new Air should make it a bit more resilient. (I wouldn't be surprised to see a new keyboard design roll out across some Mac laptops as early as this year, but if it does, it won't come to the Air for a while. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the new design is still optimized for extreme thinness.)
  - 8y ago

yoz-y 8y ago

I think that the iPad lineup is pretty okay currently. You have the iPad which is the cheapest, Air is lighter and Mini is smaller. They all use lightning and support the Pecil 1. Pro hardware has USB-C, faceid and supports Pencil 2. None of them has 3D touch. Mac lineup tho... makes less sense.

rorykoehler 8y ago
Is the air lighter? Why is it lighter? Does that mean it is missing features? Makes zero sense to me.
- yoz-y 8y ago
  Much like sports cars, computers get more expensive when they get lighter. I don't actually know if Air is lighter per se, but it is thinner thanks to the laminated screen. I think it is kind of similar for macbooks now, if there is a suffix, it means it is somehow better than the base model. (although macbook Air is larger than a macbook... which is weird)
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    I honestly only know that the pro is more powerful. I don't get the rest of the lineup. I don't get why the new air isn't a macbook (or vice versa) for example. They seem to occupy the same space. Added to that, imo, the macbook is the best industrial design of any laptop ever released and the air wedge shape the worst recent mac's but they decided to revive it for some reason. They should have just made a bigger macbook. Their product line up is a disjointed mess.
    - yoz-y 8y ago
      I too think that on macs the air should be macbook and vice versa. However then it runs into the issue that classic macbooks have really slow processors whereas the air is faster. At least on the iPad side the Air comes only with benefits.
8y ago

m463 8y ago

An old macbook air screen died, so to upgrade to a new macbook air I needed a bunch of dongles and cables (expensive). (I believe usb-c to tb2 dongle + tb2 cable) Upgrading an older machine required multiple nested dongles to get to firewire.

ksec 8y ago

Well it is very clear now Apple wants the Air brand name to be Mid Range. So Pro > Air > Original ( MacBook / iPad ). MacBook Pro > MacBook Air > Macbook iPad Pro > iPad Air > iPad ( The Mini actually fits into the Mid Range ) It is similar on iPhone, where I expect Apple to drop the number from naming scheme and just go with iPhone S > iPhone R > iPhone Basically Apple is transition all of their product line into three different segment, each with different display size and prices. And I guess these transition will make a lot more sense once the 2019 and 2020 product are out.

oflannabhra 8y ago

I see the “What about Steve” comment get posted every time there is a complaint about Apple’s lineup. The strongest rebuttal to this is the iPod line [0], circa 2005 or 2008. Apple has 5-6 full-size models and 5 models of smaller iPods. Apple has always expanded their lineups to reach the maximum possible market, going both down and up for price points. I also think you have how customers buy products totally backwards. Apple makes products for a price point and margin. Everything works back from that. Large differentiators are size and power. No one first thinks “I want 128 GB of storage, what are my options.” That’s not to say that Apple’s current lineup doesn’t have issues, or that there is no confusion amongst models. You correctly point out several of those. I’d say much of the current confusion in the line has to do with maintaining price points and preparing for ARM in the coming years. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#Timeline_of_full-size_iPod_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Classic#Timeline_of_full-...