4 ms·

Wouldn't a breakup/decentralization of Google, or any American multinational for that matter, just hand Chinese tech giants a massive advantage since the Intern

by vtange 8y ago

Wouldn't a breakup/decentralization of Google, or any American multinational for that matter, just hand Chinese tech giants a massive advantage since the Internet as it is now heavily favors large, centralized organizations? I don't see people arguing for the breakup of the tech giants across the Pacific even though they hardly have a better reputation when it comes to privacy, etc. By the way, I highly anticipate that the above argument will be made by said multinationals to prevent said breakup/anti-monopoly moves.

CharlesColeman 8y ago
> By the way, I highly anticipate that the above argument will be made by said multinationals to prevent said breakup/anti-monopoly moves. Zuckerberg made that argument months ago, surprise, surprise: https://www.recode.net/2018/7/18/17584482/mark-zuckerberg-china-antitrust-breakup-artificial-intelligence https://www.recode.net/2018/7/18/17584482/mark-zuckerberg-ch... > Mark Zuckerberg says breaking up Facebook would pave the way for China’s tech companies to dominate
coliveira 8y ago
Not a surprise, this is the same argument the oil industry has used for decades to oppose any kind of anti-oligopoly legislation. Basically they state that the US curbing the size of oil companies will adversely impact national interests in the Middle East and in other regions.
- forgotmysn 8y ago
  does that invalidate the argument?
  - coliveira 8y ago
    It is a fallacy. If having a oligopoly is bad for the economy, it doesn't matter what other countries may want to do. Why weakening your economy, to satisfy the desires of an oligopoly, will be any better?
    - creato 8y ago
      For the local national economy, an oligopoly seems possibly worse. On the international stage, it seems blindingly obvious that breaking up your local oligopoly to compete with larger foreign oligopolies or stated owned corporations is worse. Fundamentally, this is all about negotiating power, and the whole point of breaking up a monopoly/oligopoly is to reduce its negotiating power. But that's clearly a problem when interacting with foreign companies not subject to the same anti-trust action, and will have much greater negotiating power. This is complicated, and the argument is not a fallacy.
      - coliveira 8y ago
        Following your reasoning, we should just create and feed oligopolies to avoid, god help us, becoming "victims" of oligopolies from other countries... In other words, lets kill the competitiveness of the local economy, so that other countries won't be able to do just that. This is similar to the soldier who decides to commit suicide so that the foreign army won't have the chance to do so!
        ethbro 8y ago
        I believe you just described South Korea.
        creato 8y ago
        You have a point. I'm just pointing out the argument you responded to is not a fallacy, it's a real concern as well. I honestly don't know what I would do if I had decision making power on this issue. > we should just create and feed oligopolies to avoid, god help us, becoming "victims" of oligopolies from other countries... This basically is exactly the strategy of China, at least with respect to international trade, and it's working absolutely wonderfully for them. In part, precisely because most of their competition is fragmented and paralyzed by infighting.
        coliveira 8y ago
        > This basically is exactly the strategy of China, at least with respect to international trade, and it's working absolutely wonderfully for them. if that is the case, then the US has no grounds on requesting the Chinese to open their markets for US firms! If the US is itself committed to empower their oligarchic companies, we should not be surprised if the Chinese create their own mega companies and close their market to the American ones. Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if we go the path of supporting mega companies, then we should just throw away the illusion of free market and understand that other countries will do the same, because they're not stupid.
noobiemcfoob 8y ago
To echo the point that decentralization of big tech might be an advantage to foreign powers, wouldn't multiple companies be harder to monitor in their exchange of IP across state lines?

by vtange 8y ago

CharlesColeman 8y ago

> By the way, I highly anticipate that the above argument will be made by said multinationals to prevent said breakup/anti-monopoly moves. Zuckerberg made that argument months ago, surprise, surprise: https://www.recode.net/2018/7/18/17584482/mark-zuckerberg-china-antitrust-breakup-artificial-intelligence https://www.recode.net/2018/7/18/17584482/mark-zuckerberg-ch... > Mark Zuckerberg says breaking up Facebook would pave the way for China’s tech companies to dominate

coliveira 8y ago

Not a surprise, this is the same argument the oil industry has used for decades to oppose any kind of anti-oligopoly legislation. Basically they state that the US curbing the size of oil companies will adversely impact national interests in the Middle East and in other regions.

forgotmysn 8y ago
does that invalidate the argument?
- coliveira 8y ago
  It is a fallacy. If having a oligopoly is bad for the economy, it doesn't matter what other countries may want to do. Why weakening your economy, to satisfy the desires of an oligopoly, will be any better?
  - creato 8y ago
    For the local national economy, an oligopoly seems possibly worse. On the international stage, it seems blindingly obvious that breaking up your local oligopoly to compete with larger foreign oligopolies or stated owned corporations is worse. Fundamentally, this is all about negotiating power, and the whole point of breaking up a monopoly/oligopoly is to reduce its negotiating power. But that's clearly a problem when interacting with foreign companies not subject to the same anti-trust action, and will have much greater negotiating power. This is complicated, and the argument is not a fallacy.
    - coliveira 8y ago
      Following your reasoning, we should just create and feed oligopolies to avoid, god help us, becoming "victims" of oligopolies from other countries... In other words, lets kill the competitiveness of the local economy, so that other countries won't be able to do just that. This is similar to the soldier who decides to commit suicide so that the foreign army won't have the chance to do so!
      - ethbro 8y ago
        I believe you just described South Korea.
      - creato 8y ago
        You have a point. I'm just pointing out the argument you responded to is not a fallacy, it's a real concern as well. I honestly don't know what I would do if I had decision making power on this issue. > we should just create and feed oligopolies to avoid, god help us, becoming "victims" of oligopolies from other countries... This basically is exactly the strategy of China, at least with respect to international trade, and it's working absolutely wonderfully for them. In part, precisely because most of their competition is fragmented and paralyzed by infighting.
        coliveira 8y ago
        > This basically is exactly the strategy of China, at least with respect to international trade, and it's working absolutely wonderfully for them. if that is the case, then the US has no grounds on requesting the Chinese to open their markets for US firms! If the US is itself committed to empower their oligarchic companies, we should not be surprised if the Chinese create their own mega companies and close their market to the American ones. Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if we go the path of supporting mega companies, then we should just throw away the illusion of free market and understand that other countries will do the same, because they're not stupid.

noobiemcfoob 8y ago

To echo the point that decentralization of big tech might be an advantage to foreign powers, wouldn't multiple companies be harder to monitor in their exchange of IP across state lines?