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>Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly. In the current cultural zeitgeist it'd be unimagin

>Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly. In the current cultural zeitgeist it'd be unimaginable to see someone get fired because they didn't conform to someone's rules of "transgender enough" based on their social media profile. This is both the beauty and the irony of said zeitgeist; make all the rules you want, can't stop someone from playing.

menacingly 8y ago
And let's not forget the very real cases where someone may be more comfortable telling a bootcamp something about themselves than _the entire world_ on social media
fzeroracer 8y ago
Yes, you can actually. These sort of arguments remind me of the transgender bathroom fears: What's stopping a man from pretending to be transgender in order to enter the woman's bathroom? Well, the answer is that people that are transgender will have a history of being transgender or acting in such a way that confirms they consider themselves that gender. So any lawsuit as a result of this would look into your past, see that you lied about being transgender and make it an open and shut case. If that case became public then you could say goodbye to your job prospects.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  You either accept that people can choose their own gender or you don't. People don't get to police the reason someone may identify as female or male. History on social media should have nothing to do with it. Do you think everyone makes this choice at an early age and broadcasts it publicly?
  - QualityReboot 8y ago
    That's not exactly right. As I understand it, you sort of get to choose your gender, but society has to accept your choice. If I declare myself a woman but make no attempt to "live as a woman" as society sees it, I'll appear to be taking advantage of the system, and my choice will be rejected and there will be social consequences. Conversely, if I do appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman, and you don't accept it because of your conservative values, then you cannot reject my choice, because that's bigoted. Yes, you can change your mind about your gender, but you really need to do it in a life-upending way that feels risky and permanent and committed, then you'll be celebrated. If you phone it in, people are going to be offended and you'll be rejected.
    - identity-haver 8y ago
      What does it mean to "live as a woman" besides being called "she"? Wear lots of makeup and pretty dresses? I guess the XX women who don't dress like a 90s Barbie doll aren't "living as women", then.
    - leereeves 8y ago
      How would you define "live as a woman" in a way that would be acceptable to all women? It would be both sexist and transphobic to expect trans-women to "appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman" by conforming to some outdated view of womanhood. Cis-women can do anything (including any traditionally male activity like date other women, wear jeans, like football and monster trucks, like anime and video games, and in some cases, even grow beards) so why can't trans-women?
      - QualityReboot 8y ago
        Trans women can do whatever they want, all I meant is that if people are only changing their gender on paper to have more opportunities, that's considered dishonest and unacceptable... At least, I thought that's how it worked.
        malvosenior 8y ago
        People have been doing this for a very long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling#Name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling#Name As I mention in my other comments on this thread, it's not right to judge people on why they identify with a particular gender. Whether it's economically motivated or not, if you accept that people can choose their own gender, the reason for the choice doesn't matter.
    - europsucks 8y ago
      So they will create a transgender bathroom for you, but before you enter it you have to wonder if society will accept your choice? I think that is exactly not how it is supposed to work.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    It's weird that you bring this up in a comment thread about someone literally advocating for lying about their gender for the sake of some perceived competitive advantage. Do you believe this to be ethical? Because to me I find it rather offensive considering it harms actual transgender candidates.
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      I wouldn’t judge someone for changing their gender for economic purposes. It’s a personal decision and a slippery slope to decide when it’s ok and when it’s not ok.
    - xenihn 8y ago
      You're right. It's weird to bring up. It's offensive, It's harmful. It's definitely unethical. None of those things stop it from being true.

menacingly 8y ago

And let's not forget the very real cases where someone may be more comfortable telling a bootcamp something about themselves than _the entire world_ on social media

fzeroracer 8y ago

Yes, you can actually. These sort of arguments remind me of the transgender bathroom fears: What's stopping a man from pretending to be transgender in order to enter the woman's bathroom? Well, the answer is that people that are transgender will have a history of being transgender or acting in such a way that confirms they consider themselves that gender. So any lawsuit as a result of this would look into your past, see that you lied about being transgender and make it an open and shut case. If that case became public then you could say goodbye to your job prospects.

malvosenior 8y ago
You either accept that people can choose their own gender or you don't. People don't get to police the reason someone may identify as female or male. History on social media should have nothing to do with it. Do you think everyone makes this choice at an early age and broadcasts it publicly?
- QualityReboot 8y ago
  That's not exactly right. As I understand it, you sort of get to choose your gender, but society has to accept your choice. If I declare myself a woman but make no attempt to "live as a woman" as society sees it, I'll appear to be taking advantage of the system, and my choice will be rejected and there will be social consequences. Conversely, if I do appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman, and you don't accept it because of your conservative values, then you cannot reject my choice, because that's bigoted. Yes, you can change your mind about your gender, but you really need to do it in a life-upending way that feels risky and permanent and committed, then you'll be celebrated. If you phone it in, people are going to be offended and you'll be rejected.
  - identity-haver 8y ago
    What does it mean to "live as a woman" besides being called "she"? Wear lots of makeup and pretty dresses? I guess the XX women who don't dress like a 90s Barbie doll aren't "living as women", then.
  - leereeves 8y ago
    How would you define "live as a woman" in a way that would be acceptable to all women? It would be both sexist and transphobic to expect trans-women to "appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman" by conforming to some outdated view of womanhood. Cis-women can do anything (including any traditionally male activity like date other women, wear jeans, like football and monster trucks, like anime and video games, and in some cases, even grow beards) so why can't trans-women?
    - QualityReboot 8y ago
      Trans women can do whatever they want, all I meant is that if people are only changing their gender on paper to have more opportunities, that's considered dishonest and unacceptable... At least, I thought that's how it worked.
      - malvosenior 8y ago
        People have been doing this for a very long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling#Name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling#Name As I mention in my other comments on this thread, it's not right to judge people on why they identify with a particular gender. Whether it's economically motivated or not, if you accept that people can choose their own gender, the reason for the choice doesn't matter.
  - europsucks 8y ago
    So they will create a transgender bathroom for you, but before you enter it you have to wonder if society will accept your choice? I think that is exactly not how it is supposed to work.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  It's weird that you bring this up in a comment thread about someone literally advocating for lying about their gender for the sake of some perceived competitive advantage. Do you believe this to be ethical? Because to me I find it rather offensive considering it harms actual transgender candidates.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    I wouldn’t judge someone for changing their gender for economic purposes. It’s a personal decision and a slippery slope to decide when it’s ok and when it’s not ok.
  - xenihn 8y ago
    You're right. It's weird to bring up. It's offensive, It's harmful. It's definitely unethical. None of those things stop it from being true.