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The problem for many people isn't the lack of material. It's the difficulty of keeping yourself motivated and do what you need to do. Making a commitment, such

by lawn 8y ago

The problem for many people isn't the lack of material. It's the difficulty of keeping yourself motivated and do what you need to do. Making a commitment, such as joining a class or education, is massively helpful. > I would argue that maybe those women don't have the intrinsic motivation to do so and trying to force it upon them may be a gross waste of time and resources. It may come as a shock but most people don't work with their ultimate passion. And often even if you start working with your passion you'll have to deal with the ugly sides and you might lose the passion. Sometimes a job is just a job.

MisterScrooge 8y ago
Point well made. I have found that to be true from personal experience.
chongli 8y ago
It may come as a shock but most people don't work with their ultimate passion. The problem is that people learning programming for the first time, who don't have a passion for it, can find themselves in a class with those who do. I have witnessed, first hand, people who were beginners getting left in the dust by their classmates on a group project and ultimately dropping out of CS/SE entirely.
- lawn 8y ago
  Yes, I've been one of those who knew programming as well. But the problem isn't that new people join classes. The problem is experienced programmers being in the same class as beginners. I could often just do the assignments myself and skip the rest of the course. The real problem was when I was forced to partner up with someone new.
  - chongli 8y ago
    The problem is experienced programmers being in the same class as beginners. I think the problem is deeper than that, though. Computer science is a challenging field and programming is a discipline that benefits from a large amount of experience. Universities try to sell their CS programs as accessible to beginners yet tend to be very quiet about the extremely high dropout rates. Look at it this way. How well would I do if I enrolled in a fine arts program? I would essentially be a total beginner at drawing and painting. My classmates would include people who have been drawing and painting more-or-less nonstop since they were young children. Is it reasonable for me to expect the same level of career success as these born artists? There may be a lot of jobs out there for people with basic programming skills, just as there may be jobs doing mundane art and design. But I think it's a bit ridiculous for a total beginner to go into an exceptionally rigorous, programming-heavy, academic CS program and expect to do well. The fact that universities try to sell people on this is disappointing, to say the least.

by lawn 8y ago

MisterScrooge 8y ago

Point well made. I have found that to be true from personal experience.

chongli 8y ago

It may come as a shock but most people don't work with their ultimate passion. The problem is that people learning programming for the first time, who don't have a passion for it, can find themselves in a class with those who do. I have witnessed, first hand, people who were beginners getting left in the dust by their classmates on a group project and ultimately dropping out of CS/SE entirely.

lawn 8y ago
Yes, I've been one of those who knew programming as well. But the problem isn't that new people join classes. The problem is experienced programmers being in the same class as beginners. I could often just do the assignments myself and skip the rest of the course. The real problem was when I was forced to partner up with someone new.
- chongli 8y ago
  The problem is experienced programmers being in the same class as beginners. I think the problem is deeper than that, though. Computer science is a challenging field and programming is a discipline that benefits from a large amount of experience. Universities try to sell their CS programs as accessible to beginners yet tend to be very quiet about the extremely high dropout rates. Look at it this way. How well would I do if I enrolled in a fine arts program? I would essentially be a total beginner at drawing and painting. My classmates would include people who have been drawing and painting more-or-less nonstop since they were young children. Is it reasonable for me to expect the same level of career success as these born artists? There may be a lot of jobs out there for people with basic programming skills, just as there may be jobs doing mundane art and design. But I think it's a bit ridiculous for a total beginner to go into an exceptionally rigorous, programming-heavy, academic CS program and expect to do well. The fact that universities try to sell people on this is disappointing, to say the least.