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There will be benefits to this program for those who participate, and I wholly wish those women who have the opportunity to participate the best of luck. Howev

There will be benefits to this program for those who participate, and I wholly wish those women who have the opportunity to participate the best of luck. However, I also worry about the motives behind the program. A huge part of feminism is a push towards gender equality[1]. Discriminating against half of the population while aiming for equality is an odd way to behave. I know the blog post did not mention gender equality as a goal, but I just completely fail to see how discrimination like this will lead to anything but increased inter-gender conflict and the persistence of stereotypes in the field. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

rubicon33 8y ago
I don't understand why you're getting down voted for this comment. Isn't the goal equal opportunity? Providing artificial silo'd environments seems at odds to the goal of an unbiased, fair workplace. But I guess I'll just get down voted too.
- manfredo 8y ago
  In much of silicon valley, the goal is equal outcomes not equal opportunity. Often times explicitly unequal opportunity is necessary to achieve equal outcomes.
  - grondilu 8y ago
    Equal opportunity? How often do men get free programming lessons IRL?
- krapp 8y ago
  The premise here is that opportunity wasn't equal to begin with. To accept this premise, you have to also accept the premise that societal restrictions on the roles permitted to women, culturally imposed limits on womens' ability to gain power and authority (the "glass ceiling") and persistent beliefs about women being intellectually inferior to men in regards to certain fields, would lead to a status quo not of meritocracy or equality but prejudice against women in an otherwise 'unbiased' system. And so, to further the goal of equal opportunity, one must balance an already unbalanced set of scales. Not to do so is merely to accept its bias as the status quo.
  - TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
    > Not to do so is merely to accept its bias as the status quo. This is a biased interpretation itself that assumes there is preexisting bias. It is true that the premise requires acceptance of the ideas you put forth above, but the issue is that many people don't believe those are enough of a factor anymore to justify discrimination. Imbalance does not always equate to unfairness.
- canthonytucci 8y ago
  I think the gist of things like this is - at the risk of using a silly gaming analogy for something really serious - a "catch up mechanic" to bring about more equal representation sooner than just being genuinely fair and waiting for things to even out. There are philosophical cases to be made that the wrong must be righted asap, or that this approach is an instance of two wrongs not making a right. For me, assuming good intentions, I choose other things to be upset about than people being selectively nice or helpful to others who are dealing with a problem. I can understand the concern that leaning too hard in to this kind of thing can get out of hand, so as with everything, probably best to do our research and decide case by case.
root_axis 8y ago
Who cares what the motives are? She's offering to pay for 40 women to code out of her own pocket; it's a nice thing to do but overall not a big deal even if you were against the idea of a more balanced gender composition in the field (I'm not suggesting you are, I am only saying even if someone were, 40 women is a drop in the bucket). The reason why the money is offered exclusively to women is because men typically dominate the roster within programming environments. Maybe you think this is because women aren't interested in coding, but I'd argue that the 40 women who spend their summer working through this program have already demonstrated an interest if not an aptitude. I just don't see what the problem is.

rubicon33 8y ago

I don't understand why you're getting down voted for this comment. Isn't the goal equal opportunity? Providing artificial silo'd environments seems at odds to the goal of an unbiased, fair workplace. But I guess I'll just get down voted too.

manfredo 8y ago
In much of silicon valley, the goal is equal outcomes not equal opportunity. Often times explicitly unequal opportunity is necessary to achieve equal outcomes.
- grondilu 8y ago
  Equal opportunity? How often do men get free programming lessons IRL?
krapp 8y ago
The premise here is that opportunity wasn't equal to begin with. To accept this premise, you have to also accept the premise that societal restrictions on the roles permitted to women, culturally imposed limits on womens' ability to gain power and authority (the "glass ceiling") and persistent beliefs about women being intellectually inferior to men in regards to certain fields, would lead to a status quo not of meritocracy or equality but prejudice against women in an otherwise 'unbiased' system. And so, to further the goal of equal opportunity, one must balance an already unbalanced set of scales. Not to do so is merely to accept its bias as the status quo.
- TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
  > Not to do so is merely to accept its bias as the status quo. This is a biased interpretation itself that assumes there is preexisting bias. It is true that the premise requires acceptance of the ideas you put forth above, but the issue is that many people don't believe those are enough of a factor anymore to justify discrimination. Imbalance does not always equate to unfairness.
canthonytucci 8y ago
I think the gist of things like this is - at the risk of using a silly gaming analogy for something really serious - a "catch up mechanic" to bring about more equal representation sooner than just being genuinely fair and waiting for things to even out. There are philosophical cases to be made that the wrong must be righted asap, or that this approach is an instance of two wrongs not making a right. For me, assuming good intentions, I choose other things to be upset about than people being selectively nice or helpful to others who are dealing with a problem. I can understand the concern that leaning too hard in to this kind of thing can get out of hand, so as with everything, probably best to do our research and decide case by case.

root_axis 8y ago

Who cares what the motives are? She's offering to pay for 40 women to code out of her own pocket; it's a nice thing to do but overall not a big deal even if you were against the idea of a more balanced gender composition in the field (I'm not suggesting you are, I am only saying even if someone were, 40 women is a drop in the bucket). The reason why the money is offered exclusively to women is because men typically dominate the roster within programming environments. Maybe you think this is because women aren't interested in coding, but I'd argue that the 40 women who spend their summer working through this program have already demonstrated an interest if not an aptitude. I just don't see what the problem is.