4 ms·

> We use inclusive definitions of “women” and “female” and welcome trans women, genderqueer women, and non-binary people who are female-identified. If you are

> We use inclusive definitions of “women” and “female” and welcome trans women, genderqueer women, and non-binary people who are female-identified. If you are interested in the program, it seems like you could identify yourself as female and apply. Especially if there's no in-person interview. Cynically, if enough [biological males who identify as] men elect to identify as women for this application, the selection team will have some very difficult decisions to make.

fzeroracer 8y ago
This is a great way to get a company to instantly reject you at the interview step if they have one or fired shortly after being hired. Because, you know, most companies look up the profile of candidates on LinkedIn, social media etc. Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly.
- navigatesol 8y ago
  >Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly. In the current cultural zeitgeist it'd be unimaginable to see someone get fired because they didn't conform to someone's rules of "transgender enough" based on their social media profile. This is both the beauty and the irony of said zeitgeist; make all the rules you want, can't stop someone from playing.
  - menacingly 8y ago
    And let's not forget the very real cases where someone may be more comfortable telling a bootcamp something about themselves than _the entire world_ on social media
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    Yes, you can actually. These sort of arguments remind me of the transgender bathroom fears: What's stopping a man from pretending to be transgender in order to enter the woman's bathroom? Well, the answer is that people that are transgender will have a history of being transgender or acting in such a way that confirms they consider themselves that gender. So any lawsuit as a result of this would look into your past, see that you lied about being transgender and make it an open and shut case. If that case became public then you could say goodbye to your job prospects.
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      You either accept that people can choose their own gender or you don't. People don't get to police the reason someone may identify as female or male. History on social media should have nothing to do with it. Do you think everyone makes this choice at an early age and broadcasts it publicly?
      - QualityReboot 8y ago
        That's not exactly right. As I understand it, you sort of get to choose your gender, but society has to accept your choice. If I declare myself a woman but make no attempt to "live as a woman" as society sees it, I'll appear to be taking advantage of the system, and my choice will be rejected and there will be social consequences. Conversely, if I do appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman, and you don't accept it because of your conservative values, then you cannot reject my choice, because that's bigoted. Yes, you can change your mind about your gender, but you really need to do it in a life-upending way that feels risky and permanent and committed, then you'll be celebrated. If you phone it in, people are going to be offended and you'll be rejected.
        identity-haver 8y ago
        What does it mean to "live as a woman" besides being called "she"? Wear lots of makeup and pretty dresses? I guess the XX women who don't dress like a 90s Barbie doll aren't "living as women", then.
        leereeves 8y ago
        How would you define "live as a woman" in a way that would be acceptable to all women? It would be both sexist and transphobic to expect trans-women to "appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman" by conforming to some outdated view of womanhood. Cis-women can do anything (including any traditionally male activity like date other women, wear jeans, like football and monster trucks, like anime and video games, and in some cases, even grow beards) so why can't trans-women?
- strken 8y ago
  There is a level of salary discrepancy where I would transition and start living as a woman, probably somewhere around the point of women earning 50 to 60% more. I'm not even sure it would be a lie; gender is pretty unimportant to me, and at some point the potential gains overcome inertia and habit.
- europsucks 8y ago
  So what attributes would mark somebody as not transgender on LinkedIn and so on? I am genuinely curious? Unless they have explicitly stated their gender on such sites? I am degendering my online presence now, just in case I have to present as female in the future.

fzeroracer 8y ago

This is a great way to get a company to instantly reject you at the interview step if they have one or fired shortly after being hired. Because, you know, most companies look up the profile of candidates on LinkedIn, social media etc. Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly.

navigatesol 8y ago
>Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly. In the current cultural zeitgeist it'd be unimaginable to see someone get fired because they didn't conform to someone's rules of "transgender enough" based on their social media profile. This is both the beauty and the irony of said zeitgeist; make all the rules you want, can't stop someone from playing.
- menacingly 8y ago
  And let's not forget the very real cases where someone may be more comfortable telling a bootcamp something about themselves than _the entire world_ on social media
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  Yes, you can actually. These sort of arguments remind me of the transgender bathroom fears: What's stopping a man from pretending to be transgender in order to enter the woman's bathroom? Well, the answer is that people that are transgender will have a history of being transgender or acting in such a way that confirms they consider themselves that gender. So any lawsuit as a result of this would look into your past, see that you lied about being transgender and make it an open and shut case. If that case became public then you could say goodbye to your job prospects.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    You either accept that people can choose their own gender or you don't. People don't get to police the reason someone may identify as female or male. History on social media should have nothing to do with it. Do you think everyone makes this choice at an early age and broadcasts it publicly?
    - QualityReboot 8y ago
      That's not exactly right. As I understand it, you sort of get to choose your gender, but society has to accept your choice. If I declare myself a woman but make no attempt to "live as a woman" as society sees it, I'll appear to be taking advantage of the system, and my choice will be rejected and there will be social consequences. Conversely, if I do appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman, and you don't accept it because of your conservative values, then you cannot reject my choice, because that's bigoted. Yes, you can change your mind about your gender, but you really need to do it in a life-upending way that feels risky and permanent and committed, then you'll be celebrated. If you phone it in, people are going to be offended and you'll be rejected.
      - identity-haver 8y ago
        What does it mean to "live as a woman" besides being called "she"? Wear lots of makeup and pretty dresses? I guess the XX women who don't dress like a 90s Barbie doll aren't "living as women", then.
      - leereeves 8y ago
        How would you define "live as a woman" in a way that would be acceptable to all women? It would be both sexist and transphobic to expect trans-women to "appear to be making an honest attempt to be a woman" by conforming to some outdated view of womanhood. Cis-women can do anything (including any traditionally male activity like date other women, wear jeans, like football and monster trucks, like anime and video games, and in some cases, even grow beards) so why can't trans-women?
strken 8y ago
There is a level of salary discrepancy where I would transition and start living as a woman, probably somewhere around the point of women earning 50 to 60% more. I'm not even sure it would be a lie; gender is pretty unimportant to me, and at some point the potential gains overcome inertia and habit.
europsucks 8y ago
So what attributes would mark somebody as not transgender on LinkedIn and so on? I am genuinely curious? Unless they have explicitly stated their gender on such sites? I am degendering my online presence now, just in case I have to present as female in the future.