5 ms·
It's weird how much the anti-vaxxers have become the whipping boys of the current US. Is it because they've got both the smell of dirty hippies and also anti-s
by aetherson 8y ago
It's weird how much the anti-vaxxers have become the whipping boys of the current US. Is it because they've got both the smell of dirty hippies and also anti-science religious conservatives and also annoying soccer moms so everyone can love to hate them?
Not giving your kid vaccinations is stupid. But on the scale of "ways you can mess up your kid," it's pretty mild. In terms of the amount of harm that non-vaccinated kids do to everyone else, it's extremely near zero. Almost certainly, if you drive a car more than a few times a year, you're endangering those around you more than any anti-vaxxer is.
And if you actually want to convince anti-vaxxers to change their ways, this is clearly not the right way to do it. Pouring hate on people feels (scarily) good in a lot of ways, but it doesn't change the minds of the people you're demonizing. Is there any clearer demonstration of this than the complete persistence of anti-vaxxing sentiment in the face of steadily increasing screams of protest over the last 5 years?
- sathishmanohar 8y agoBut injecting kids with aluminum and mercury is to be applauded?
- hello_newman 8y agoOh god you’re one of them. I’m sorry for you and your family.
- RobertRoberts 8y agoCalling someone "one of them" is exactly how censorship on a social level works. Why not discuss the merits of the science instead of ad hominem attacks?
- sneakernets 8y agoBecause the science is so solid that it's beating a dead horse at this point. But with anti-vaxxers, It's like telling someone the red apple you're holding is red, yet they insist that it's green. You can't argue "the merits" with people like this.
- RobertRoberts 8y agoHere's two medical doctors that say the science isn't settled at all. In fact that the vaccine usage in it's current form is anti-scientific. Dr. Richard Halvorsen (England) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMs1ue8j9CM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMs1ue8j9CM Dr. Suzanne Humphries (USA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQOv-Oi6U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQOv-Oi6U
- tombert 8y agoThere are over 1 million doctors in the US [1]. Of course you will be able to find one that supports nearly any ludicrous claim. There has been extensive research on vaccines in the major scientific literature, and the research has overwhelmingly reached the conclusion that there is no link with autism. [1] https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/ https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/
- RobertRoberts 8y agoDr. Humphries specifically addresses the issue of those 1 million doctors in her talk. Your argument is a logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
- tombert 8y agoIt's hardly an argument ad populum to say that the overwhelming amount of research says vaccines have no link to autism. That's simply asserting an undeniable fact Moreover, are you seriously asserting the argument of "because one doctor says something, it has to be right"? I'm sorry, but the scientific process trusts the research, simple as that, and I largely trust the scientific process. The argument isn't "I think vaccines are safe because most of the world says so", my argument is "in the overwhelming amount of research that has been done on this, it has determined no link between vaccines and autism".
- 8y ago
- eclipxe 8y agoYour views are wrong and deserve to be censored.
- sathishmanohar 8y agoData please. Are you claiming vaccines does not contain large amount of aluminum and mercury. Large enough to cause autoimmune diseases and even death. Let us talk data instead of trying to shoot down the voice, which seems to have become the trend in the west lately
- sneakernets 8y agoOf course we're claiming that, because it's the truth. If you don't know the difference between an ethyl compound and a methyl compound, learn those first, then come back.
- RobertRoberts 8y agoWhat is the CDC's allowable ppb of ethyl mercury in an adult vs an 8lb infant? Now compare that to the amount in all the vaccines in all the shots on schedule from the CDC, and you will see some very plain data that counters the common narrative.
- eej71 8y agoWhen you consume salt - would you describe it as consuming sodium and chlorine? Salt is inherently different from the two elements that form it. For the vast majority of us - the assertions about aluminum and mercury suffer from what appears to be a deep understanding over the nature of molecules vs. the elements that form them.
- 908087 8y agoI heard they contain magnets which can cause your children to be hit by cars when they ride their bikes on the highway.
- sathishmanohar 8y agoI can see you are vaccinated ;)
- dang 8y agoPersonal attacks will get you banned here. I realize this thread is a wretched flamewar (and haven't had time yet to look at just how wretched) but this comment stands out as a bannable offense. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and please don't post like this to HN, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are.
- sneakernets 8y agoChlorine can cause blindness, burn skin off, or just kill you instantly, and sodium is an explosive that can cause blindness and severe burns, yet you casually shake these two disastrous chemicals on your salad at the dinner table daily.
- sathishmanohar 8y agoYour point? Is Sodium chloride same as sodium and chlorine separately. Extending your logic makes drinking liquid hydrogen perfectly safe because we drink water everyday.
- krastanov 8y agoThat was their point: they were showing how ridiculous your first comment is, saying the same thing you are saying in your second comment. There is no elemental mercury in vaccines (this is probably the most debunked antivax argument).
- sathishmanohar 8y agoVaccines with Thimerosal is given to babies all over the world to this date. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen (Cancer causing substance in human tissue) is one of the vaccine ingredients present in most vaccines.
- krastanov 8y agoSaying thimerosal is dangerous because of mercury is like saying salt is dangerous because of chlorine or water is dangerous because of liquid hydrogen. Moreover, it is mostly phased out of use.
- hellllllllooo 8y ago> Not giving your kid vaccinations is stupid. But on the scale of "ways you can mess up your kid," it's pretty mild. Measles and other dangerous diseases returning to the US after being iradicated is not a small issue. This effects other children's lives. It's selfish and harmful and we have a safe reliable solution. People have become complacent to the horrible effects of diseases because of the protections vaccines have provided them over the last 50+ years.
- aetherson 8y agoI don't disagree that people are complacent, but on a factual level, most kids who don't get vaccinations do not get measles. Most who do get measles have a few weeks of discomfort and get over it. Most who do get measles do not give it to anyone else except maybe other unvaccinated kids. In the years before a measles vaccine, there were about 500 deaths per year from measles (in the US). This was when the population was about half of what it is now, so if we returned fully to that rate, there would be about 1,000 deaths per year from measles today. There were no deaths from measles in the years 2016 or 2017, per this document from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatsslideset.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatssli... As I said, it's dumb not to get your kids vaccinated. I wish I could get vaccinated to more things! It's like a super power! But the amount of actual harm that anti-vaxxers are causing is miniscule, certainly deeply out of proportion with the hate that they're getting. And if you do sincerely desire to keep as many people as possible from getting the measles, rather than desire to feel the rush of heaping hate on people, then again, let me suggest that the current tactics are not working, and that de-escalating the rhetoric around this will do much more to let anti-vaxxers relax and start listening to your data.
- scriptkiddy 8y ago> I don't disagree that people are complacent, but on a factual level, most kids who don't get vaccinations do not get measles. This is because other children do not contract measles because they have been vaccinated for Measles, as have their parents. It's not because Measles is hard to contract, it's because Measles is uncommon in the modern Western world. It's uncommon in the modern Western world because people have been vaccinated for it. > In the years before a measles vaccine, there were about 500 deaths per year from measles (in the US). This was when the population was about half of what it is now, so if we returned fully to that rate, there would be about 1,000 deaths per year from measles today. 1000 easily preventable deaths. Just because 1000 people isn't a large, scary number doesn't mean that it's a small number either. A single person dying of a preventable illness is heartbreaking. Each one of those 1000 people who die are someone's son, daughter, wife, husband, brother, sister, aunt, etc. What value do you place on human life? > There were no deaths from measles in the years 2016 or 2017, per this document from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatssli.. https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/measlesdataandstatssli.... Because of Vaccines. It even says right there in the link: "Measles remains a leading cause of vaccine-preventable infant mortality." > But the amount of actual harm that anti-vaxxers are causing is miniscule, certainly deeply out of proportion with the hate that they're getting. You say this until your child goes to kindergarten with an un-vaccinated child and contracts a deadly illness. In addition, anti-vaxxers are doing harm to their own children. A parent's responsibility is to protect their children. I understand that anti-vax parents think hey are protecting their children by refusing vaccines, but it is objectively the opposite. Anti-vax parents are exposing their children to deadly illnesses that used to kill people at an alarming rate before vaccination was common. They are doing this to a child who cannot understand the implications of these decisions. > And if you do sincerely desire to keep as many people as possible from getting the measles, rather than desire to feel the rush of heaping hate on people, then again, let me suggest that the current tactics are not working, and that de-escalating the rhetoric around this will do much more to let anti-vaxxers relax and start listening to your data. This I can partially agree with. However, cognitive bias is very real and very powerful. Clearly, hate and spite are not a good way to communicate with anti-vaxxers, but how many children need to die and how may horrible illnesses need to become common before they realize the errors of their ways?