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I'm really curious about this item >Community Good technical leaders are also leaders in the outside communities. Well, why would they be ? I mean, they can b

by C4stor 8y ago

I'm really curious about this item >Community Good technical leaders are also leaders in the outside communities. Well, why would they be ? I mean, they can be, but I fail to see it as a requirement. I'm a bit concerned that nowadays the dev culture is that you should be working ten hours a day, and also go to meetups/brown bags lunchs/user groups/whatever another 3 hours to show off how passionate you are. Any opinions aroud that ?

protonimitate 8y ago
I think that point has more to do with having well-rounded leadership skills than being a workaholic. In fact, I would argue that demonstrating hard boundaries when it comes to over-working is an exponentially better skill to have than working non-stop. The best managers I've had have known when to be done for the day and disconnect from work - and lead their teams to do the same.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
panzagl 8y ago
Part of the distinguished engineer's role in the company should allow them the time to do such things- attend conferences and meetups, participate in research, meet with vendors, etc. If a company needs someone focused internally on product for 8-10 hours a day, then that company cannot afford a distinguished engineer.
- zachr 8y ago
  > If a company needs someone focused internally on product for 8-10 hours a day Then they need two people, not one.
jcoder 8y ago
I feel like the author's prose right underneath that heading explains it really well: If you silo yourself to only learning within your company, you are missing out on a world of experiences and expertise different than yours from the external community. Technical leaders realize this and place importance on learning from the larger world of computing than just their solo. New ideas get introduced to orgs in many ways. In my experience, it's primarily through hiring new people, but making it an expectation of distinguished eng is clever, because you can also expect them to practice and apply discernment.
- C4stor 8y ago
  Yeah, but that has nothing to do with being specifically a leader in external community. It has to do with having an interest in external community, but I would argue that you're probably learning more if you're in fact not a leader !
scarejunba 8y ago
You can be concerned if you like but you can't change it. Some people are 9-5 engineers but the best aren't. It's just a competitive advantage to care about something a lot. Your framing sort of reveals it. It isn't "to show off" because no one is going to know that you went to your local LUG. They're only going to know that you told them about this thing called cgroups and how this other thing called Docker allows you to develop faster and it worked. It's utterly exhausting to do these things if you aren't into them. I, for instance, couldn't go to my local Ruby group after the first couple because it was positively unexciting to me. But the other guys there were pursuing their avocation, not their vocation, and their knowledge and skills in that dimension are probably far beyond mine as a result of the Cross-pollination of ideas that inevitably happens when vokers converse.
- C4stor 8y ago
  I can only disagree. I have coworkers going to meet-ups. And trust me, I know, since they can't stop speaking about it. And what do they talk about ? Internal meetup politics, how X said what to Y, etc...aka the usual human chatter. Also, they spend a fair share of their workday actually preparing and organizing those. I seriously doubt they're the best engineers out there, they just have a hobby and like to talk to about it like everybody else. Also, not going to meetups doesn't mean you have to do a 9-5, what I observe is that it's actually going to meetups which forces hours on you since you got to leave at a predefined hour to not be late there. Maybe the meetup scene is very different where you are, but around there it's the same ~30 people going to every possible meetup subject to have a friendly chat, chug a few beers and listen to a talk rarely given by an expert but rather someone who spent a handful of hours hacking on something fun. I'm just not convinced it makes anyone better.
justincormack 8y ago
If you don’t understand the external context in which you work, be it customers, competitors, new ideas, new priorities, and just focus on what happens in your organisation or team then you will fail.
- C4stor 8y ago
  You don't need to be a _leader_ in an external community to have external context.

by C4stor 8y ago

protonimitate 8y ago

I think that point has more to do with having well-rounded leadership skills than being a workaholic. In fact, I would argue that demonstrating hard boundaries when it comes to over-working is an exponentially better skill to have than working non-stop. The best managers I've had have known when to be done for the day and disconnect from work - and lead their teams to do the same.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

panzagl 8y ago

Part of the distinguished engineer's role in the company should allow them the time to do such things- attend conferences and meetups, participate in research, meet with vendors, etc. If a company needs someone focused internally on product for 8-10 hours a day, then that company cannot afford a distinguished engineer.

zachr 8y ago
> If a company needs someone focused internally on product for 8-10 hours a day Then they need two people, not one.

jcoder 8y ago

I feel like the author's prose right underneath that heading explains it really well: If you silo yourself to only learning within your company, you are missing out on a world of experiences and expertise different than yours from the external community. Technical leaders realize this and place importance on learning from the larger world of computing than just their solo. New ideas get introduced to orgs in many ways. In my experience, it's primarily through hiring new people, but making it an expectation of distinguished eng is clever, because you can also expect them to practice and apply discernment.

C4stor 8y ago
Yeah, but that has nothing to do with being specifically a leader in external community. It has to do with having an interest in external community, but I would argue that you're probably learning more if you're in fact not a leader !

scarejunba 8y ago

You can be concerned if you like but you can't change it. Some people are 9-5 engineers but the best aren't. It's just a competitive advantage to care about something a lot. Your framing sort of reveals it. It isn't "to show off" because no one is going to know that you went to your local LUG. They're only going to know that you told them about this thing called cgroups and how this other thing called Docker allows you to develop faster and it worked. It's utterly exhausting to do these things if you aren't into them. I, for instance, couldn't go to my local Ruby group after the first couple because it was positively unexciting to me. But the other guys there were pursuing their avocation, not their vocation, and their knowledge and skills in that dimension are probably far beyond mine as a result of the Cross-pollination of ideas that inevitably happens when vokers converse.

C4stor 8y ago
I can only disagree. I have coworkers going to meet-ups. And trust me, I know, since they can't stop speaking about it. And what do they talk about ? Internal meetup politics, how X said what to Y, etc...aka the usual human chatter. Also, they spend a fair share of their workday actually preparing and organizing those. I seriously doubt they're the best engineers out there, they just have a hobby and like to talk to about it like everybody else. Also, not going to meetups doesn't mean you have to do a 9-5, what I observe is that it's actually going to meetups which forces hours on you since you got to leave at a predefined hour to not be late there. Maybe the meetup scene is very different where you are, but around there it's the same ~30 people going to every possible meetup subject to have a friendly chat, chug a few beers and listen to a talk rarely given by an expert but rather someone who spent a handful of hours hacking on something fun. I'm just not convinced it makes anyone better.

justincormack 8y ago

If you don’t understand the external context in which you work, be it customers, competitors, new ideas, new priorities, and just focus on what happens in your organisation or team then you will fail.

C4stor 8y ago
You don't need to be a _leader_ in an external community to have external context.