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I think that depends on definition of "forced". If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to

I think that depends on definition of "forced". If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to work?

danharaj 8y ago
A lot of people hold that position
minikites 8y ago
Yes, you are forced to work and that's one of the main arguments in favor of a basic income.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  I personally find the idea of basic income very interesting (I'm not yet confident it will work in real life though), but that's probably an off-topic for this thread. Back to your point though: isn't it ironical then that pretty much the only place where a person is not "forced" to work is prison? How's that ever fair?
- wtdata 8y ago
  Which is shifting the "I am forced to work for my own" to "someone is forced to work for me".
spwmoni 8y ago
Have you never heard of the concept of "wage slavery"?
dragonwriter 8y ago
While the question of whether capitalism is slavery is perhaps interesting (and quite a large number of people have answered that question in the affirmative), the system where you are committed, without free consent even as that is constructed within a capitalist framework, to an arrangement where a private party rents out exclusive control of you and your labor for a period of time from the government, and compels you to labor for the benefit of that private party is very different from the “you must find a willing party to give you food, and most of them are only willing to do so for money, and most people are not willing to give you money without some exchange of value” feature of capitalism, in ways which make it fit a much less controversial understanding of slavery than any that include capitalism as a whole.
gnulinux 8y ago
> Does it mean I am forced to work? Absolutely yes. You told it yourself, if you stop working you're going to die from hunger. In what sense can you argue "you're free not to work"?
conanbatt 8y ago
Its a definition game, but in philosophy and political economy free is "free from other people" not free from nature, as that is impossible.
CalRobert 8y ago
You can look for another job, though.
trevyn 8y ago
>will probably die of hunger It looks like you’re in the US. You’d have to try quite hard to die of malnutrition here.
fwip 8y ago
You've hit upon the concept of wage slavery.
CarlSchmitt 8y ago
> If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to work? This is such a bad argument in my opinion...living is working...it might not be at a job in an office, but if you want to eat/drink/shelter, you're going to have to work one way or the other...your question kinda seems like complaining about the fact that consuming calories and water and making shelter to live is not forced already, when it is by nature...

I think that depends on definition of "forced". If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to work?

danharaj 8y ago

A lot of people hold that position

minikites 8y ago

Yes, you are forced to work and that's one of the main arguments in favor of a basic income.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
I personally find the idea of basic income very interesting (I'm not yet confident it will work in real life though), but that's probably an off-topic for this thread. Back to your point though: isn't it ironical then that pretty much the only place where a person is not "forced" to work is prison? How's that ever fair?
wtdata 8y ago
Which is shifting the "I am forced to work for my own" to "someone is forced to work for me".

spwmoni 8y ago

Have you never heard of the concept of "wage slavery"?

dragonwriter 8y ago

While the question of whether capitalism is slavery is perhaps interesting (and quite a large number of people have answered that question in the affirmative), the system where you are committed, without free consent even as that is constructed within a capitalist framework, to an arrangement where a private party rents out exclusive control of you and your labor for a period of time from the government, and compels you to labor for the benefit of that private party is very different from the “you must find a willing party to give you food, and most of them are only willing to do so for money, and most people are not willing to give you money without some exchange of value” feature of capitalism, in ways which make it fit a much less controversial understanding of slavery than any that include capitalism as a whole.

gnulinux 8y ago

> Does it mean I am forced to work? Absolutely yes. You told it yourself, if you stop working you're going to die from hunger. In what sense can you argue "you're free not to work"?

conanbatt 8y ago

Its a definition game, but in philosophy and political economy free is "free from other people" not free from nature, as that is impossible.

CalRobert 8y ago

You can look for another job, though.

trevyn 8y ago

>will probably die of hunger It looks like you’re in the US. You’d have to try quite hard to die of malnutrition here.

fwip 8y ago

You've hit upon the concept of wage slavery.

CarlSchmitt 8y ago

> If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to work? This is such a bad argument in my opinion...living is working...it might not be at a job in an office, but if you want to eat/drink/shelter, you're going to have to work one way or the other...your question kinda seems like complaining about the fact that consuming calories and water and making shelter to live is not forced already, when it is by nature...