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> I think it's debateable, after generations of experience, that prisons make people more criminal. At the very least, rehabilitation doesn't work very well. F

> I think it's debateable, after generations of experience, that prisons make people more criminal. At the very least, rehabilitation doesn't work very well. From comments read on the Internet it seems there are plenty of differences between American and European prisons, even more to the Northen European countries. There they seem to be able to rehabilitate the people (most of the time), unlike other places. I think it doesn't help the depiction of prisons in fiction as a place where the strong thrive, full of contained violence, bribes and all the debauchery humanity is capable of. I don't think American prisons rehabilitate. Insisting that they do even less is like the extreme capitalistic measures of cutting public funding for a function, and then demand that that function should be privatized because it doesn't work.

prepend 8y ago
I think this is more romantic “grass is greener” thinking. It’s pretty hard to compare effectiveness of prisons for rehabilitations across countries. There is some research [0], and there is a lot of limitations in data, but it seems like Europe isn’t doing so well on recidivism. Or at least France and Germany seem to also struggle with people leaving and then reentering prison. If I had to guess, I would say that prisons, in general, don’t rehabilitate. They just isolate for society’s protection because no one has a good idea of how to fix people that has effectiveness efficacy. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/
- monocasa 8y ago
  Your own link shows that Norway has less than half the recidivism rate as the US.
  - prepend 8y ago
    I tried to describe how this document has many limitations. I also don’t think 36% (if accurate), although better than the US, means Norway has figured it out. My comment above did not intend to convey that the US has great prisons or that other countries have great prisons. I meant that recidivism is bad and too many criminals come back into the prison system. Can the US improve? Of course. Can the US learn from other countries? Of course. Is rehabilitating criminals a solved problem that the US is ignoring? No.
- chmod775 8y ago
  I did some fact checking on the article you linked and it turns out it's garbage. Their own sources disagree with them. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19463425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19463425
  - prepend 8y ago
    Thanks for the link. There’s lots of limitations to this paper. I still think it’s useful in showing high recidivism, especially with your fact checking. I think 20% is too high, even though it’s better than 30%.

prepend 8y ago

I think this is more romantic “grass is greener” thinking. It’s pretty hard to compare effectiveness of prisons for rehabilitations across countries. There is some research [0], and there is a lot of limitations in data, but it seems like Europe isn’t doing so well on recidivism. Or at least France and Germany seem to also struggle with people leaving and then reentering prison. If I had to guess, I would say that prisons, in general, don’t rehabilitate. They just isolate for society’s protection because no one has a good idea of how to fix people that has effectiveness efficacy. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/

monocasa 8y ago
Your own link shows that Norway has less than half the recidivism rate as the US.
- prepend 8y ago
  I tried to describe how this document has many limitations. I also don’t think 36% (if accurate), although better than the US, means Norway has figured it out. My comment above did not intend to convey that the US has great prisons or that other countries have great prisons. I meant that recidivism is bad and too many criminals come back into the prison system. Can the US improve? Of course. Can the US learn from other countries? Of course. Is rehabilitating criminals a solved problem that the US is ignoring? No.
chmod775 8y ago
I did some fact checking on the article you linked and it turns out it's garbage. Their own sources disagree with them. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19463425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19463425
- prepend 8y ago
  Thanks for the link. There’s lots of limitations to this paper. I still think it’s useful in showing high recidivism, especially with your fact checking. I think 20% is too high, even though it’s better than 30%.