4 ms·

What's wrong with the numbers of recidivism? A criminal is a criminal, he can't help it; I don't know why people think that keeping them locked up could ever fi

by ujhmi6 8y ago

What's wrong with the numbers of recidivism? A criminal is a criminal, he can't help it; I don't know why people think that keeping them locked up could ever fix that. Probably nothing can, maybe medication.

Sholmesy 8y ago
I don't think someone is born a criminal. If that's the case, its cultural and can be influenced.
- ujhmi6 8y ago
  It might be environmental factors, I don't know, but certainly by the time someone ends up in prison it's already too late.
  - brazzy 8y ago
    This is very provably complete nonsene.
hobofan 8y ago
And the 2019 price for most reductionist view of other humans goes to...
izietto 8y ago
That's a very bigot reasoning. The most civilized countries in the world (Scandinavia) tend towards the opposite: - shorter incarceration period: incarceration is useful just for frustrated masses, not for the society - rehabilitation: if incarceration period is useful to something, that is giving people time and space to restart their lives
- ujhmi6 8y ago
  Scandinavia is a bad example; that only works when you have a culturally and racially homogeneous society.
  - izietto 8y ago
    Still wrong; Scandinavian countries have high immigration rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Current_population_of_immigrants_and_their_descendants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Current_...
    - draugadrotten 8y ago
      and because of those population changes, the old ways of short incarceration and rehabilitation have stopped working... 2014, NOTE - Before the Great Migration "With prisoner numbers falling and jails closing, Swedish criminal justice works, says director-general Nils Öberg" https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-sweden-not-punishment-nils-oberg https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-swede... 2018, A few years AFTER the Great Migration "Sweden's rapidly filling prisons – capacity has jumped from 85 percent to 95 percent in just four years – is a problem officials had predicted." https://www.thelocal.se/20180712/violence-on-the-rise-in-swedens-nearly-full-prisons https://www.thelocal.se/20180712/violence-on-the-rise-in-swe... "Sweden rape: Most convicted attackers foreign-born, says TV" ... " he SVT programme revealed that in cases where the victim did not know the attacker, the proportion of foreign-born offenders was more than 80%. " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 you get the picture... I hope this is not too sensitive to post here on HN, as I know these facts goes against many of the beliefs many of you hold. But why be afraid of facts? They may tell you something you didn't knew before. The truth is out there.
      - izietto 8y ago
        To me it doesn't demonstrate that incarceration and rehabilitation don't work, it just shows that crime is correlated to misery and ignorance
        ujhmi6 8y ago
        To me it demonstrates that the trick to have a crime-free society is social and racial homogeneity. Which the US doesn't have.
Tepix 8y ago
Other countries have proven that this is wrong. The US prison system does not aim for resettlement. It wants revenge. It's left with too many prisoners and abysmal conditions in prisons. Add privatization of prisons to the mix and the situation gets so much worse due to wrong incentives and corruption.
Faaak 8y ago
I robbed things when I was young. Yet I consider myself successful now and no longer a criminal. So yes, people change. And fuck your mindset

by ujhmi6 8y ago

Sholmesy 8y ago

I don't think someone is born a criminal. If that's the case, its cultural and can be influenced.

ujhmi6 8y ago
It might be environmental factors, I don't know, but certainly by the time someone ends up in prison it's already too late.
- brazzy 8y ago
  This is very provably complete nonsene.

hobofan 8y ago

And the 2019 price for most reductionist view of other humans goes to...

izietto 8y ago

That's a very bigot reasoning. The most civilized countries in the world (Scandinavia) tend towards the opposite: - shorter incarceration period: incarceration is useful just for frustrated masses, not for the society - rehabilitation: if incarceration period is useful to something, that is giving people time and space to restart their lives

ujhmi6 8y ago
Scandinavia is a bad example; that only works when you have a culturally and racially homogeneous society.
- izietto 8y ago
  Still wrong; Scandinavian countries have high immigration rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Current_population_of_immigrants_and_their_descendants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Current_...
  - draugadrotten 8y ago
    and because of those population changes, the old ways of short incarceration and rehabilitation have stopped working... 2014, NOTE - Before the Great Migration "With prisoner numbers falling and jails closing, Swedish criminal justice works, says director-general Nils Öberg" https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-sweden-not-punishment-nils-oberg https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-swede... 2018, A few years AFTER the Great Migration "Sweden's rapidly filling prisons – capacity has jumped from 85 percent to 95 percent in just four years – is a problem officials had predicted." https://www.thelocal.se/20180712/violence-on-the-rise-in-swedens-nearly-full-prisons https://www.thelocal.se/20180712/violence-on-the-rise-in-swe... "Sweden rape: Most convicted attackers foreign-born, says TV" ... " he SVT programme revealed that in cases where the victim did not know the attacker, the proportion of foreign-born offenders was more than 80%. " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 you get the picture... I hope this is not too sensitive to post here on HN, as I know these facts goes against many of the beliefs many of you hold. But why be afraid of facts? They may tell you something you didn't knew before. The truth is out there.
    - izietto 8y ago
      To me it doesn't demonstrate that incarceration and rehabilitation don't work, it just shows that crime is correlated to misery and ignorance
      - ujhmi6 8y ago
        To me it demonstrates that the trick to have a crime-free society is social and racial homogeneity. Which the US doesn't have.

Tepix 8y ago

Other countries have proven that this is wrong. The US prison system does not aim for resettlement. It wants revenge. It's left with too many prisoners and abysmal conditions in prisons. Add privatization of prisons to the mix and the situation gets so much worse due to wrong incentives and corruption.

Faaak 8y ago

I robbed things when I was young. Yet I consider myself successful now and no longer a criminal. So yes, people change. And fuck your mindset