4 ms·

I predict that we will see Dart in top 20 by next year, given that Flutter will become a bigger deal over time.

by jsnk 8y ago

pjmlp 8y ago
Flutter is the next GWT. Even Fucshia is now adding support for other UI frameworks via Scenic.
- bsaul 8y ago
  i’m really interested about flutter so your comment comes to me as a surprise ( since i think you didn’t mean it as a compliment). Do you have any criticism about flutter you’d like to share ?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Easy, Flutter is the last hope to make Dart relevant outside Googleplex, being dragged into Google's internal politics of Fuchsia, Android, ChromeOS. Less mature than every cross-platform mobile UI framework that are around since iOS and Android have won the mobile market. At the same time Fuchsia how has a UI composition engine, where Flutter is just one option among many (Scenic) and they are toying with a Rust based one (Fuchsia-ui). Being burned by Dart 1.0, I will only take it seriously when it officially gets adopted by the Android team.
    - lorriman 8y ago
      What do you mean by "burned by Dart 1.0"? Dart was rejected by the community it was aimed at, Javascripts devs (and for pretty dumb reasons, I don't have much respect for either Javascript or its devs). Google understandably took the opportunity to reboot it. None of this is the same as dropping it, which for sure would merit "being burned". It's now a modernised and slick version of Javascript (minus the functional, which no one uses anyway) with a full Android and IOS framework and extensive and properly documented libraries. And it's opensource. At this point it's not possible for it to be 'dropped'.
      - bsaul 8y ago
        I haven’t seen this argument about about open source projects in a long time, so i’d like to respond : Beeing open source only means an organisation, or a group of developers, with the capacity to handle a project the size of flutter + dart, could do so if they wanted to. Which means basically noone, except maybe in China, because nobody could have the firepower to deal with something this big ( maintain and even harder have it evolve) for free.
        lorriman 8y ago
        That argument applies to something like Linux. Here we are talking about a language and wrappers and an essentially completed framework (granted new ideas mean no framework is every completed). And unlike a google service, which requires continued resource usage and high cost, flutter+dart has low needs. It may get outdated, but it can't be disappeared like other dropped google projects. In any case, Unless Dart+flutter becomes an undesirable competitor to another google offering, there is no reason for Google to drop it unless it fails to get sufficient adoption. But I think that's unlikely. Javascript devs are widening their horizons these days (as opposed to their rejection of Dart 1.0), and Dart only needs a few of those javascript devs to take an interest. The framework is an easy crossover for many of them, with an almost instant access to app development and little commitment needed to spin up.
        bsaul 8y ago
        Dart still has a long way to go as a language to catch up on the recent trends of statically typed PL (rust and swift come to mind), flutter needs constant update for every release of both iOS and Android to make sure their native theme are up to date and that they offer a decent equivalent to any new GUI component those platform release. Just look at how long it took to get a correct map on flutter (and i don't think they've catched up yet). I think they took a very good direction from a technical point of view, to recode everything from the lowest level possible, but that kind of approach requires a tremendous level of commitment.
        8y ago
    - bsaul 8y ago
      So it’s more about politics ( which regarding google handling of things is a perfectly valid concern), than technics ?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Both, as mentioned there are more mature alternatives, based on programming languages worthy having on the CV.
    - therockhead 8y ago
      "I will only take it seriously when it officially gets adopted by the Android team. " I can understand this POV. Has there been any rumors that the Android team might adopted flutter ?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Official statement is that only Java, Kotlin and C++ matter. Check their latest AMA on Reddit.
        ptx 8y ago
        That took a while to find. Here is a link to the discussion: https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_the_engineering_team_for_android_studio/?limit=500 https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_... And here is the relevant comment, I think: https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_the_engineering_team_for_android_studio/ehhm2dm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_...
Insanity 8y ago
I do hope the language has progressed a fair deal in that case. Using Angular with Dart 3-4 years ago was not exactly a pleasure. Could have been the interaction with the framework and the fact that it lagged behind on Angular/TS at that time.

I predict that we will see Dart in top 20 by next year, given that Flutter will become a bigger deal over time.

by jsnk 8y ago

I predict that we will see Dart in top 20 by next year, given that Flutter will become a bigger deal over time.

pjmlp 8y ago

Flutter is the next GWT. Even Fucshia is now adding support for other UI frameworks via Scenic.

bsaul 8y ago
i’m really interested about flutter so your comment comes to me as a surprise ( since i think you didn’t mean it as a compliment). Do you have any criticism about flutter you’d like to share ?
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Easy, Flutter is the last hope to make Dart relevant outside Googleplex, being dragged into Google's internal politics of Fuchsia, Android, ChromeOS. Less mature than every cross-platform mobile UI framework that are around since iOS and Android have won the mobile market. At the same time Fuchsia how has a UI composition engine, where Flutter is just one option among many (Scenic) and they are toying with a Rust based one (Fuchsia-ui). Being burned by Dart 1.0, I will only take it seriously when it officially gets adopted by the Android team.
  - lorriman 8y ago
    What do you mean by "burned by Dart 1.0"? Dart was rejected by the community it was aimed at, Javascripts devs (and for pretty dumb reasons, I don't have much respect for either Javascript or its devs). Google understandably took the opportunity to reboot it. None of this is the same as dropping it, which for sure would merit "being burned". It's now a modernised and slick version of Javascript (minus the functional, which no one uses anyway) with a full Android and IOS framework and extensive and properly documented libraries. And it's opensource. At this point it's not possible for it to be 'dropped'.
    - bsaul 8y ago
      I haven’t seen this argument about about open source projects in a long time, so i’d like to respond : Beeing open source only means an organisation, or a group of developers, with the capacity to handle a project the size of flutter + dart, could do so if they wanted to. Which means basically noone, except maybe in China, because nobody could have the firepower to deal with something this big ( maintain and even harder have it evolve) for free.
      - lorriman 8y ago
        That argument applies to something like Linux. Here we are talking about a language and wrappers and an essentially completed framework (granted new ideas mean no framework is every completed). And unlike a google service, which requires continued resource usage and high cost, flutter+dart has low needs. It may get outdated, but it can't be disappeared like other dropped google projects. In any case, Unless Dart+flutter becomes an undesirable competitor to another google offering, there is no reason for Google to drop it unless it fails to get sufficient adoption. But I think that's unlikely. Javascript devs are widening their horizons these days (as opposed to their rejection of Dart 1.0), and Dart only needs a few of those javascript devs to take an interest. The framework is an easy crossover for many of them, with an almost instant access to app development and little commitment needed to spin up.
        bsaul 8y ago
        Dart still has a long way to go as a language to catch up on the recent trends of statically typed PL (rust and swift come to mind), flutter needs constant update for every release of both iOS and Android to make sure their native theme are up to date and that they offer a decent equivalent to any new GUI component those platform release. Just look at how long it took to get a correct map on flutter (and i don't think they've catched up yet). I think they took a very good direction from a technical point of view, to recode everything from the lowest level possible, but that kind of approach requires a tremendous level of commitment.
        8y ago
  - bsaul 8y ago
    So it’s more about politics ( which regarding google handling of things is a perfectly valid concern), than technics ?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Both, as mentioned there are more mature alternatives, based on programming languages worthy having on the CV.
  - therockhead 8y ago
    "I will only take it seriously when it officially gets adopted by the Android team. " I can understand this POV. Has there been any rumors that the Android team might adopted flutter ?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Official statement is that only Java, Kotlin and C++ matter. Check their latest AMA on Reddit.
      - ptx 8y ago
        That took a while to find. Here is a link to the discussion: https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_the_engineering_team_for_android_studio/?limit=500 https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_... And here is the relevant comment, I think: https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_the_engineering_team_for_android_studio/ehhm2dm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/av3lhx/were_on_...

Insanity 8y ago

I do hope the language has progressed a fair deal in that case. Using Angular with Dart 3-4 years ago was not exactly a pleasure. Could have been the interaction with the framework and the fact that it lagged behind on Angular/TS at that time.