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Japan's culture is a double edged sword. The very same phenomenon that allows you to have politeness-by-default and lots of dedication to professionalism is the

Japan's culture is a double edged sword. The very same phenomenon that allows you to have politeness-by-default and lots of dedication to professionalism is the same mechanism by which you get glacial paces of change when the culture settled into the wrong ideology. There are lots of more downsides (lots of flipped-coin situations), but this is just one of them. Japan is much less likely to change rapidly on this front than any other society, in my opinion changing attitudes everywhere else is what will convince Japan. One thing I could see is them legalizing marijuana but taxing is incredibly (as a way to offset some long-term economics issues), but I don't know of a single politician willing to be that progressive (and not lose backing)... That's not what "progressive" looks like here really.

selestify 8y ago
That's really interesting. What other flipped-coin situations do you notice?
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  Take this with a grain of salt -- I think I understand Japan after living here for a while, but my "while" is <10 years and in the end it's hard to understand Japan as well as a native Japanese person might. Anyway here are a few: - Excessive Politeness <-> Passive Aggression (once you over-step or under-step) - Dedication to Professionalism <-> Overworking & <x>-theatre (the appearance of working hard becomes paramount) - Pressure to behave "properly" <-> [Ex|Im]plosion of "improper" behavior - Prioritizing the group <-> Normalization of oppression (ex. someone putting up with something that isn't right to avoid perturbing the group dynamic) - Propensity to save money <-> Less economic liquidity (whether this is good or bad for an economy is very much up for debate) - Emphasis on success/reputation <-> Very risk averse behavior Weirdly enough, in my opinion all of these things are what make japan what it is, and partially what makes it interesting. I haven't checked but surely Japan is the most homogeneous large successful nation out there, with a very distinct culture. I feel like I understand it because once you see the other side of some of these behaviors, it just clicks -- some of it is just historical and requires much more research (could japan have been a matriarchal society? maybe?), but a lot of it just kind of obvious based on the values held by a populace that is so largely homogeneous in culture. Again, I'm not an expert in Japanese culture, that takes decades of work and research -- but I've found a lot of these fairly obvious to see over the years.
  - mikekchar 8y ago
    > Excessive Politeness <-> Passive Aggression (once you over-step or under-step) One thing I learned (the bad way) is that people at work will be nice to you and avoid confrontation and argument to an extraordinary extent. But if you push them too far and get into an argument.... that's it. You've ruined that relationship pretty much for ever. Unfortunately it took me a couple of tries to understand the nuance of that :-(
    - hardwaresofton 8y ago
      Yeah that's the thing -- another thing is the propensity for people to hold to pretty meaningless relationships just for appearance sake. I think it's contributing to the loneliness issues here -- people are nice to each other but don't seem to ever actually connect. People will say they've "known" someone for 5 years, when they at most speak once or twice every year (and often never touch on anything substantial, either). I can't imagine how petty high society is here, or how much backbiting there is at the local HOA/neighborhood meetings -- I suspect it's worse than the US (because at the very least people will confront and settle an issue there, instead of leaving a minefield), but I will likely never find out. I'm really trying to keep it light, but there is a lot to the underbelly of japanese culture that isn't so great, but all that said, it's a fantastic place to live, the cost of living is low (RIP japanese work force wages), public transportation is amazing, people are wonderful, there's a wide variety of influences and culture to sample. Here's a light-hearted positive anecdote -- last year I left my wallet on a bus I was riding, and when realizing ~30 minutes later, I stopped a bus going the same direction to ask if the same buses came back (as in, would the same bus I left my wallet on come back the other way), and the driver not only confirmed, but also took out some stationery and wrote the number for the bus depot, and the called and coordinated extremely professionally. It was so professional that I was even a bit ashamed for sounding flustered on the phone. To balance out that light-hearted positive anecdote -- don't ever go to a Japanese governmental agency without the right paperwork/seals/etc, it very likely will not end well for you.
      - mikekchar 8y ago
        Sorry for being chatty, but I just had to laugh. I'm in the middle of renewing my work visa for the UK (so I can travel there for work from time to time). I'm sweating bullets... but then reading your message I realised, "Wait. It's not Japan" :-) But, yeah. It's best to keep it light in your own head. "Going up against Japan" is like going up against a brick wall. If you start getting upset about something you're just going to wreck yourself. Japan will not change. Until it does, of course. And then it will change literally overnight for no discernible reason and you'll be left wondering, "How the heck did everybody know to change???"

selestify 8y ago

That's really interesting. What other flipped-coin situations do you notice?

hardwaresofton 8y ago
Take this with a grain of salt -- I think I understand Japan after living here for a while, but my "while" is <10 years and in the end it's hard to understand Japan as well as a native Japanese person might. Anyway here are a few: - Excessive Politeness <-> Passive Aggression (once you over-step or under-step) - Dedication to Professionalism <-> Overworking & <x>-theatre (the appearance of working hard becomes paramount) - Pressure to behave "properly" <-> [Ex|Im]plosion of "improper" behavior - Prioritizing the group <-> Normalization of oppression (ex. someone putting up with something that isn't right to avoid perturbing the group dynamic) - Propensity to save money <-> Less economic liquidity (whether this is good or bad for an economy is very much up for debate) - Emphasis on success/reputation <-> Very risk averse behavior Weirdly enough, in my opinion all of these things are what make japan what it is, and partially what makes it interesting. I haven't checked but surely Japan is the most homogeneous large successful nation out there, with a very distinct culture. I feel like I understand it because once you see the other side of some of these behaviors, it just clicks -- some of it is just historical and requires much more research (could japan have been a matriarchal society? maybe?), but a lot of it just kind of obvious based on the values held by a populace that is so largely homogeneous in culture. Again, I'm not an expert in Japanese culture, that takes decades of work and research -- but I've found a lot of these fairly obvious to see over the years.
- mikekchar 8y ago
  > Excessive Politeness <-> Passive Aggression (once you over-step or under-step) One thing I learned (the bad way) is that people at work will be nice to you and avoid confrontation and argument to an extraordinary extent. But if you push them too far and get into an argument.... that's it. You've ruined that relationship pretty much for ever. Unfortunately it took me a couple of tries to understand the nuance of that :-(
  - hardwaresofton 8y ago
    Yeah that's the thing -- another thing is the propensity for people to hold to pretty meaningless relationships just for appearance sake. I think it's contributing to the loneliness issues here -- people are nice to each other but don't seem to ever actually connect. People will say they've "known" someone for 5 years, when they at most speak once or twice every year (and often never touch on anything substantial, either). I can't imagine how petty high society is here, or how much backbiting there is at the local HOA/neighborhood meetings -- I suspect it's worse than the US (because at the very least people will confront and settle an issue there, instead of leaving a minefield), but I will likely never find out. I'm really trying to keep it light, but there is a lot to the underbelly of japanese culture that isn't so great, but all that said, it's a fantastic place to live, the cost of living is low (RIP japanese work force wages), public transportation is amazing, people are wonderful, there's a wide variety of influences and culture to sample. Here's a light-hearted positive anecdote -- last year I left my wallet on a bus I was riding, and when realizing ~30 minutes later, I stopped a bus going the same direction to ask if the same buses came back (as in, would the same bus I left my wallet on come back the other way), and the driver not only confirmed, but also took out some stationery and wrote the number for the bus depot, and the called and coordinated extremely professionally. It was so professional that I was even a bit ashamed for sounding flustered on the phone. To balance out that light-hearted positive anecdote -- don't ever go to a Japanese governmental agency without the right paperwork/seals/etc, it very likely will not end well for you.
    - mikekchar 8y ago
      Sorry for being chatty, but I just had to laugh. I'm in the middle of renewing my work visa for the UK (so I can travel there for work from time to time). I'm sweating bullets... but then reading your message I realised, "Wait. It's not Japan" :-) But, yeah. It's best to keep it light in your own head. "Going up against Japan" is like going up against a brick wall. If you start getting upset about something you're just going to wreck yourself. Japan will not change. Until it does, of course. And then it will change literally overnight for no discernible reason and you'll be left wondering, "How the heck did everybody know to change???"