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Living in Korea, it's just baffling to see these ridiculous, archaic attitudes toward marijuana in Korea and Japan. It's like stepping into a time machine. The

Living in Korea, it's just baffling to see these ridiculous, archaic attitudes toward marijuana in Korea and Japan. It's like stepping into a time machine. The internet and its resources are available, yet no amount of reasoning or information gets through to a lot of people. Marijuana is just "evil" or only "people who commit/will commit crimes" use it. I don't necessarily think the attitude here should be just like in the US, but at least let people use it medically, and get rid of the disproportionate stigma. As @laureig mentioned, one can’t even admit trying marijuana in polite/semi-polite company (of other Koreans). With foreigners it’s a little different. Generally it only gets discussed if you’re closer with them. --- At the same time, alcohol [and alcoholism] is not only totally fine, it's encouraged! Sometimes it's even mandatory to go drinking with your coworkers after work, due to social pressure from peers and bosses. I have spoken with a few people like this. But going to clubs in 홍대 Hongdae/강남 Gangnam and drinking until 9am or drinking at a dozen bars in Golden Gai until 6am is totally fine. Drinking until you puke on the street is totally fine. (Admittedly I did do this once in 세종시 Sejong-City, Korea)

bamboozled 8y ago
What's more baffling is that it's totally acceptable to be an alcoholic and in a lot of workplaces it can be seen as negative to not participate in heavy drinking events.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  You dont have to drink alcohol when you go out drinking in Japan. you always have the option to go for soft drinks.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    You still have to go out drinking with coworkers because it's one of those things viewed as a social responsibility. And said coworkers will pressure you to drink because you're expected to get drunk among them as well. There is a lot of combined pressure to get people to drink.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      I have been going for years drinking with colleagues in Japan and I have never had a problem to avoid getting drunk by switching very quickly to soft drinks, and this, even in several companies.
      - bamboozled 8y ago
        "I have never had a problem to avoid getting drunk by switching very quickly to soft drinks, and this, even in several companies." If you're an alcoholic or binge drinker, then you're in trouble basically. Some people can't just say no once they get started. Hence my point stands, alcoholism is a large and accepted part of current day culture. In other countries I've lived and worked in, people avoided having work functions solely at bars for this and cultural sensitivity reasons.
        leetcrew 8y ago
        protip: it's hard to tell the difference between a gin and tonic and a club soda with lime. once people are drunk, they don't necessarily notice who's still sober. of course this doesn't solve the problem that being sober around a bunch of drunk people isn't much fun.
leggomylibro 8y ago
I'm not sure if it's still true, but North Korea used to be one of the few countries which had not outlawed cannabis. Apparently it has a very strong root structure and they had a lot of problems with soil erosion, especially along railway lines. It sure is amazing how different perspectives influence decision-making. Incidentally, if anyone is interested in the country's history between WWII and Kim Jong-Un, check out Under the Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty by Bradley K. Martin if you want a dry but deep history, or Nothing to Envy: Oridinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick for a more narrative account.
yongjik 8y ago
Not just that: in Korea, if you're drunk and punch/stab/rape someone, and you claim you were drunk, you may get a reduced sentence, because you were clearly too drunk to be responsible for your action. (Never mind nobody forced you to drink.) At least more and more younger generation seem to be against the drinking culture. (Unfortunately, they still agree with older generation on marijuana...)
- mantas 8y ago
  Well, if one prefers to be sober, it's natural to be not only against drinking, but weed too.
- bspammer 8y ago
  It's interesting and a little surprising to me that this is the case (the marijuana stigma in the younger generation). I stayed in a hostel in Seoul last year, and everyone was lighting up, including Koreans.
lacey 8y ago
It was definitely surprising to me to see grown men in suits throwing up on the streets nearly every one of the seven nights I spent in Tokyo. I don’t recall seeing any of that in the three nights I spent in Kyoto but having said that I didn’t have many late nights there. I’ll add that the attitude towards things like stimulants that help people with ADD/ADHD is also a bit bizarre to me.
- intertextuality 8y ago
  I’m was just in Tokyo, Shinjuku area. Around 5-6am while walking back from Golden Gai I saw guys in suits stumbling back; one guy face planted pretty hard and there was some blood. Overall it was fun as a foreigner but it’s weird to see this as acceptable but marijuana (even medically) as not acceptable.
  - proy24 8y ago
    Ironic when you think about islamic countries which ban alchohol but allow hashish to be smoked in public....
    - jpatokal 8y ago
      FWIW, many cities in Saudi Arabia including the capital Riyadh ban even tobacco in public: you need to drive 30km out of the town to the city limits to find a cluster of hookah bars.
rangibaby 8y ago
> Living in Korea, it's just baffling to see these ridiculous, archaic attitudes toward marijuana in Korea and Japan. It's an East Asian cultural aversion to drug culture that has roots in how opium was used to dominate China. OTOH Japanese love medicines; doctors give out pills that are strongly regulated overseas like rohypnol like candies. CBD oil is completely legal OTC
- distantaidenn 8y ago
  Had a major surgery in Japan that required general anesthesia. During recovery, the only pain killer they would provide was loxoprofen (ibuprofen). Naturally, this didn't do much, and I couldn't sleep through the pain. But thankfully, I was given a prescription for brotizolam quite readily - - a powerful and abusable hypnotic used for sedation... Anyway, still gotta say thank you to the doctor that put my knee back together! Also, with insurance the total was less than $1,000 and my drugs were a few bucks -- don't even want to imagine the cost back in the US.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    yes but the social insurance system is deep in the red so technically your surgery is paid with debt.
    - distantaidenn 8y ago
      It's hard to display emotion through text, and I say the following without flippancy: I pay my taxes and pension. So I'd like to think I'm doing my part. Also, I highly doubt I will retire here and begin drawing said pension.
      - ekianjo 8y ago
        Sure you are doing your part, but you should avoid glossing about the fact that it's cheap compared to the US when in fact the real cost is completely hidden to you and is reported to future generations.
matz1 8y ago
To each their own. I support that. It's quite possibility that they too find it baffling to see the ridiculous attitude that and some western country have toward marijuana. They have every right to decide for themselves to make marijuana "evil", whatever the reason is.
- scbrg 8y ago
  To each their own is a reasonable philosophy when you apply it to individuals. It's not quite so reasonable when you apply it to countries, as countries are anything but a 100% homogeneous set of individuals. Perhaps some people in Korea don't think marijuana is evil. Maybe some people in Korea don't like being effectively forced to drink themselves senseless every day. Heck, maybe some Saudi Arabian gays would prefer not to be executed - but to each [country] their own I guess, hmm?
  - matz1 8y ago
    Yes, but the parent post is specifically talking about countries so 'To each their own' I'm using is in the context of countries. A country in relation of other country. Of course if you drill down within a country then the context of 'To each their own' is within its individual.
- icebraining 8y ago
  I don't see anyone advocating taking away their decision.
mnm1 8y ago
Such attitudes are still quite prevalent in most US states and at the federal level, especially with former attorney general sessions. Archaic indeed, but hardly unique or surprising.
- intertextuality 8y ago
  That's true, but the for the majority, that attitude has changed now. Of course there are still staunch holdouts [like the state where I went to college, South Carolina...] but overall it's much better. Particularly for medical usage.
sevilo 8y ago
So just because alcohol is bad we should encourage other substances that also have an effect on people’s ability to think clearly and have additive properties? Instead of discouraging the culture of drinking? Regardless of what westerners think of as “ridiculous” drug laws, Japan, Korea and other Asian countries with “ridiculous” drug laws do have way lower rate of drug addiction and abuse. That is no coincident.
- SirHound 8y ago
  Shame there isn’t a metric for the amount of fun a society has from those same drugs.
  - sevilo 8y ago
    Sure, China in the 1800s everybody had good amounts of fun from opium, widely accepted by society, pretty much everybody did it. Wonder how that worked out for them.
    - deadbunny 8y ago
      Britain got involved and fucked everything up?
      - ekianjo 8y ago
        It could have been any other country when your whole population is under the ongoing control of opoids.
        failrate 8y ago
        So, large swaths of the United States in the year 2019.
  - Tsubasachan 8y ago
    In the Netherlands drugs are huge. Xtc, weed, cocaine. Its all good. The party never ends. But the Netherlands has a social welfare system that by and large keeps people from crashing. There are no ghettos, no rust belt.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tokyodude 8y ago
a few random uninformed thoughts 1. drinking culture AFAICT drinking culture is fairly different in Japan than in at least the USA. In the USA drinking leads to fights and violence. In Japan that seems far less so. Drinking and getting drunk in Japan doesn't have the stigma it has in the USA because it doesn't lead to the same issues? Include drunk driving in that since few people drive 2. attitudes toward drugs SF is falling apart. I know you can argue the two are not related, SF falling apart and SF being one of the most drug friendly cities but I'm sure the Japanese don't find it quite so easy to separate those 2 things. I'm not 100% sure I can. Like many of the things that seems at least mildly related. The lower violent crime. The lower theft rates. The more respect for the commons (less trashing public things). For whatever wrong headed reason I find drug culture and trashing things related.
- nemothekid 8y ago
  Your second point is pretty interesting. I wonder why it’s easier for people to blame drugs, rather than overarching social failures, such as the incredible lack of housing. Maybe those issues are more complex. Consider that Paris is comparatively very trashy but also way more conservative than San Francisco.
  - freyir 8y ago
    Because the drug policy is one of San Francisco’s overarching social failures? The city hands hundreds of millions of dollars to outreach organizations that operate with little oversight and offer no results. We hand out 400,000 needles a month to IV drug users, and the dirty needles end up in the streets and sidewalks, putting everyone at risk. There is human feces everywhere. We allow open use in broad daylight. In some neighborhoods, we allow open dealing in parks and street corners. Police don’t bother to make arrests because the DA wouldn’t prosecute anyway. More and more homeless drug addicts move here to take advantage of the de-facto deregularization. The city reacts by throwing more money at the problem, without oversight or results, and the cycle continues. The large number of homeless who are mentally ill or addicted to opiates are unaffected by the housing costs, because they couldn’t afford a house at any price.
ekianjo 8y ago
Not only that but Japan encourages alcohol consumption while enjoying the highest rate of stomach cancer along with Korea in the whole world. You have to wonder what the government is thinking, or how much corrupt politicians are.
- magduf 8y ago
  The government is democratic, so it has to respond to the wishes of the voters. That said, it does seem like the Japanese government has made top-down efforts to change various things about the culture in that country, such as pushing companies to not overwork their employees so much.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
As a European I think the Second Amendment in the US is archaic. People stopped walking around with weapons in public 150 years ago. There are historical reasons for these harsh penalties. Japan saw what happened to China in the opium wars.
- negus 8y ago
  And do you often meet people with weapons in public in the US? I didn't. In fact, I met much more people with firearms in public in Israel. And guess what? It made me feel safer. Though I know that both topics are highly discussable. I disagree with you on "archaic Second Amendment", but I like that you have your right to disagree with it. The main problem mentioned in topic is not the weed consumption -- it's the taboo of even talking about it.
  - deadbunny 8y ago
    I generally expect people to be armed in a warzone, not so much in a mall.
    - devcpp 8y ago
      If you have been in Israel you know that Tel Aviv is as much a warzone as NYC, and much less than Paris. Though, something has to be added for context: 95% of people in Israel walking around with weapons are soldiers. So of course you feel safer than next to a random hillbilly. This is not relevant to discussion about the 2nd amendment.
      - emptyfile 8y ago
        >If you have been in Israel you know that Tel Aviv is as much a warzone as NYC, and much less than Paris How so? Is the whole of Israel Tel Aviv? Is there not daily violence in Israel? Is there not a whole nation locked in a ghetto inside its borders? Is that not Israel? Only Tel Aviv is Israel? Great that you feel so safe near Israeli soldiers, I myself will never set foot in the country.
  - 8y ago
Synaesthesia 8y ago
You can blame the US occupation for these laws, they didn't exist prior to 1945 when Cannabis was a part of Korean and Japanese traditional culture.
- jsnider3 8y ago
  This is mentioned in the article.
dkersten 8y ago
> The internet and its resources are available, yet no amount of reasoning or information gets through to a lot of people. This is a "normal" thing, there was a HN article about it some weeks back: often if someone has their mind made up about something, often no amount of facts, figures, logic and proof will change their minds. They may even see these things as personal attacks. Facts are, sadly, not an effective way to convince people. I'm currently reading the book "Never split the difference" by Chris Voss, a book on negotiation by a former FBI hostage negotiator. In it, he talks at length about why traditional negotiation techniques don't work: they assume that both sides are rational and can be persuaded through facts and value propositions. People aren't rational, they're emotional and to get through to someone, you need to get through to their emotional mind. The book then talks about different techniques he's used to do this, but the fundamental foundation seems to be to listen to what the other person is saying -- really, really listen -- and put yourself into their emotional shoes so you can understand not just what emotion they're feeling, but also why. He then uses rather simple techniques: he verbalises the emotions he thinks their feeling and the reasons. This forces the other person to acknowledge them (or correct him if he got it wrong), which has a calming effect, provides you with more information to work with and often makes the person realise if they're being unreasonable. That's only one technique used, of course, but you can see how he's not trying to engage their logical factual minds, but rather find a way to put out the emotional fires going on in the persons mind. I think these same principles apply when trying to convince someone of anything. If they have an emotional stake in the debate, then facts and logic aren't going to cut it, but talking to their emotions hostage-negotiator-style just might.
- failrate 8y ago
  I was just in a class on managing children's tantrums, and the advice is very, very similar. The mistake we make is assuming adults are fundamentally different feom children.
  - dkersten 8y ago
    Absolutely! Chris even says in the book that while he perfected his art in hostage negotiations[1], they work just as well in business and in your personal life (and he even gave "negotiating your childs bedtime" as an example). I'm really enjoying the book, both in terms of what I'm learning and entertainment. I highly recommend it! [1] The unique thing about hostage negotiations is that you have to get what you want, or people may die, and you can't give anything meaningful in return. Most situations aren't quite that drastic, of course.
rayiner 8y ago
It’s the association of marijuana with laziness/lack of ambition, which is a cardinal sin in Asian culture.
- chrischen 8y ago
  I think a lot of the “hard working” stereotyoe of Asians in America (mostly Chinese and Koreans) come from the fact they are immigrants and start from the bottom once they get here.
  - magduf 8y ago
    What's interesting is that Hispanic immigrants start from the bottom, yet they usually don't go very high up the social ladder, don't get an education, etc., while Asian immigrants become doctors. I wonder if anyone's done any real research on this.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      This is misleading. Hispanics as a whole haven't risen very much (but are rising) because there's a consistent inflow of new immigrants. Many also also return to their home countries after making a decent chunk of money. So this gives the appearance of not being successful. Populations of Hispanics that do stay in the US for larger stretches of time have been successful. Cuban Americans, for example, have higher than average incomes and education rates: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans
      - magduf 8y ago
        >Cuban Americans, for example, have higher than average incomes and education rates Compared to Asian-Americans though? Maybe I'm biased though, because I've never been to Florida which is where most of them seem to be located.
        manfredo 8y ago
charliebrownau 8y ago
The same issues we have in the west No matter how much information , proof and facts you provide about:- * Almost ALL MSM and Western Society has been taken over by the left * Companies DO and are censoring people based on supporting democracy (right wing) * LEFT is about Global Socialism take over of EU+West * Feminism is SOCIALISM * Duluth Model exists * Metoo changes the concept of western LAW at fundamental levels * Gynoctic system exists * Feminism and DUTHAL model is designed to remove ALL accountability ad responsibilities for women * Not everyone wants to live in an 1 story 3 bedroom 1 car park home and infact more and more increasing single people in society are happy to live in an - Tiny home - 1 bedroom unit - or 1 bedroom tiny home and be left alone Yes we can be happy alone We dont need:- - No idiots smoking near us - No idiots with 500% bass from their stereo We just want to be alone, individuals to live in peace without dealing with the mainstream "normies"
scottlocklin 8y ago
Comparing literally any index of social dysfunction; crime, divorce, homelessness, mental illness rates: no Westerner has any right to lecture Japan (or South Korea) on how they run their country no matter how many "muh weed" articles they can find on the internet.
- MuffinFlavored 8y ago
  Can you elaborate?
- magduf 8y ago
  Japan has ridiculously low crime rates, yes, but they also have extremely high suicide rates, so your point about mental illness rates doesn't hold water. Also, crime and murder rates in many western European countries are also quite low, though not as low as Japan of course. It's only America that has terrible murder rates (esp. by guns), but America is not like other Western nations in many ways, so you shouldn't lump them together, just as you shouldn't lump Japan and China together.
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    Related: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-diseases-flare-as-unsanitary-living-conditions-proliferate/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-diseases... Japanese don't see suicide as something medicalized as in the West. It's also not much different in rates per 100k from suicide in the West, and the idea that they're exceptional here is ... well, kind of a dumb racial stereotype. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan

bamboozled 8y ago

What's more baffling is that it's totally acceptable to be an alcoholic and in a lot of workplaces it can be seen as negative to not participate in heavy drinking events.

ekianjo 8y ago
You dont have to drink alcohol when you go out drinking in Japan. you always have the option to go for soft drinks.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  You still have to go out drinking with coworkers because it's one of those things viewed as a social responsibility. And said coworkers will pressure you to drink because you're expected to get drunk among them as well. There is a lot of combined pressure to get people to drink.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    I have been going for years drinking with colleagues in Japan and I have never had a problem to avoid getting drunk by switching very quickly to soft drinks, and this, even in several companies.
    - bamboozled 8y ago
      "I have never had a problem to avoid getting drunk by switching very quickly to soft drinks, and this, even in several companies." If you're an alcoholic or binge drinker, then you're in trouble basically. Some people can't just say no once they get started. Hence my point stands, alcoholism is a large and accepted part of current day culture. In other countries I've lived and worked in, people avoided having work functions solely at bars for this and cultural sensitivity reasons.
      - leetcrew 8y ago
        protip: it's hard to tell the difference between a gin and tonic and a club soda with lime. once people are drunk, they don't necessarily notice who's still sober. of course this doesn't solve the problem that being sober around a bunch of drunk people isn't much fun.

leggomylibro 8y ago

I'm not sure if it's still true, but North Korea used to be one of the few countries which had not outlawed cannabis. Apparently it has a very strong root structure and they had a lot of problems with soil erosion, especially along railway lines. It sure is amazing how different perspectives influence decision-making. Incidentally, if anyone is interested in the country's history between WWII and Kim Jong-Un, check out Under the Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty by Bradley K. Martin if you want a dry but deep history, or Nothing to Envy: Oridinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick for a more narrative account.

yongjik 8y ago

Not just that: in Korea, if you're drunk and punch/stab/rape someone, and you claim you were drunk, you may get a reduced sentence, because you were clearly too drunk to be responsible for your action. (Never mind nobody forced you to drink.) At least more and more younger generation seem to be against the drinking culture. (Unfortunately, they still agree with older generation on marijuana...)

mantas 8y ago
Well, if one prefers to be sober, it's natural to be not only against drinking, but weed too.
bspammer 8y ago
It's interesting and a little surprising to me that this is the case (the marijuana stigma in the younger generation). I stayed in a hostel in Seoul last year, and everyone was lighting up, including Koreans.

lacey 8y ago

It was definitely surprising to me to see grown men in suits throwing up on the streets nearly every one of the seven nights I spent in Tokyo. I don’t recall seeing any of that in the three nights I spent in Kyoto but having said that I didn’t have many late nights there. I’ll add that the attitude towards things like stimulants that help people with ADD/ADHD is also a bit bizarre to me.

intertextuality 8y ago
I’m was just in Tokyo, Shinjuku area. Around 5-6am while walking back from Golden Gai I saw guys in suits stumbling back; one guy face planted pretty hard and there was some blood. Overall it was fun as a foreigner but it’s weird to see this as acceptable but marijuana (even medically) as not acceptable.
- proy24 8y ago
  Ironic when you think about islamic countries which ban alchohol but allow hashish to be smoked in public....
  - jpatokal 8y ago
    FWIW, many cities in Saudi Arabia including the capital Riyadh ban even tobacco in public: you need to drive 30km out of the town to the city limits to find a cluster of hookah bars.

rangibaby 8y ago

> Living in Korea, it's just baffling to see these ridiculous, archaic attitudes toward marijuana in Korea and Japan. It's an East Asian cultural aversion to drug culture that has roots in how opium was used to dominate China. OTOH Japanese love medicines; doctors give out pills that are strongly regulated overseas like rohypnol like candies. CBD oil is completely legal OTC

distantaidenn 8y ago
Had a major surgery in Japan that required general anesthesia. During recovery, the only pain killer they would provide was loxoprofen (ibuprofen). Naturally, this didn't do much, and I couldn't sleep through the pain. But thankfully, I was given a prescription for brotizolam quite readily - - a powerful and abusable hypnotic used for sedation... Anyway, still gotta say thank you to the doctor that put my knee back together! Also, with insurance the total was less than $1,000 and my drugs were a few bucks -- don't even want to imagine the cost back in the US.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  yes but the social insurance system is deep in the red so technically your surgery is paid with debt.
  - distantaidenn 8y ago
    It's hard to display emotion through text, and I say the following without flippancy: I pay my taxes and pension. So I'd like to think I'm doing my part. Also, I highly doubt I will retire here and begin drawing said pension.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      Sure you are doing your part, but you should avoid glossing about the fact that it's cheap compared to the US when in fact the real cost is completely hidden to you and is reported to future generations.

matz1 8y ago

To each their own. I support that. It's quite possibility that they too find it baffling to see the ridiculous attitude that and some western country have toward marijuana. They have every right to decide for themselves to make marijuana "evil", whatever the reason is.

scbrg 8y ago
To each their own is a reasonable philosophy when you apply it to individuals. It's not quite so reasonable when you apply it to countries, as countries are anything but a 100% homogeneous set of individuals. Perhaps some people in Korea don't think marijuana is evil. Maybe some people in Korea don't like being effectively forced to drink themselves senseless every day. Heck, maybe some Saudi Arabian gays would prefer not to be executed - but to each [country] their own I guess, hmm?
- matz1 8y ago
  Yes, but the parent post is specifically talking about countries so 'To each their own' I'm using is in the context of countries. A country in relation of other country. Of course if you drill down within a country then the context of 'To each their own' is within its individual.
icebraining 8y ago
I don't see anyone advocating taking away their decision.

mnm1 8y ago

Such attitudes are still quite prevalent in most US states and at the federal level, especially with former attorney general sessions. Archaic indeed, but hardly unique or surprising.

intertextuality 8y ago
That's true, but the for the majority, that attitude has changed now. Of course there are still staunch holdouts [like the state where I went to college, South Carolina...] but overall it's much better. Particularly for medical usage.

sevilo 8y ago

So just because alcohol is bad we should encourage other substances that also have an effect on people’s ability to think clearly and have additive properties? Instead of discouraging the culture of drinking? Regardless of what westerners think of as “ridiculous” drug laws, Japan, Korea and other Asian countries with “ridiculous” drug laws do have way lower rate of drug addiction and abuse. That is no coincident.

SirHound 8y ago
Shame there isn’t a metric for the amount of fun a society has from those same drugs.
- sevilo 8y ago
  Sure, China in the 1800s everybody had good amounts of fun from opium, widely accepted by society, pretty much everybody did it. Wonder how that worked out for them.
  - deadbunny 8y ago
    Britain got involved and fucked everything up?
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      It could have been any other country when your whole population is under the ongoing control of opoids.
      - failrate 8y ago
        So, large swaths of the United States in the year 2019.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  In the Netherlands drugs are huge. Xtc, weed, cocaine. Its all good. The party never ends. But the Netherlands has a social welfare system that by and large keeps people from crashing. There are no ghettos, no rust belt.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

tokyodude 8y ago

a few random uninformed thoughts 1. drinking culture AFAICT drinking culture is fairly different in Japan than in at least the USA. In the USA drinking leads to fights and violence. In Japan that seems far less so. Drinking and getting drunk in Japan doesn't have the stigma it has in the USA because it doesn't lead to the same issues? Include drunk driving in that since few people drive 2. attitudes toward drugs SF is falling apart. I know you can argue the two are not related, SF falling apart and SF being one of the most drug friendly cities but I'm sure the Japanese don't find it quite so easy to separate those 2 things. I'm not 100% sure I can. Like many of the things that seems at least mildly related. The lower violent crime. The lower theft rates. The more respect for the commons (less trashing public things). For whatever wrong headed reason I find drug culture and trashing things related.

nemothekid 8y ago
Your second point is pretty interesting. I wonder why it’s easier for people to blame drugs, rather than overarching social failures, such as the incredible lack of housing. Maybe those issues are more complex. Consider that Paris is comparatively very trashy but also way more conservative than San Francisco.
- freyir 8y ago
  Because the drug policy is one of San Francisco’s overarching social failures? The city hands hundreds of millions of dollars to outreach organizations that operate with little oversight and offer no results. We hand out 400,000 needles a month to IV drug users, and the dirty needles end up in the streets and sidewalks, putting everyone at risk. There is human feces everywhere. We allow open use in broad daylight. In some neighborhoods, we allow open dealing in parks and street corners. Police don’t bother to make arrests because the DA wouldn’t prosecute anyway. More and more homeless drug addicts move here to take advantage of the de-facto deregularization. The city reacts by throwing more money at the problem, without oversight or results, and the cycle continues. The large number of homeless who are mentally ill or addicted to opiates are unaffected by the housing costs, because they couldn’t afford a house at any price.

ekianjo 8y ago

Not only that but Japan encourages alcohol consumption while enjoying the highest rate of stomach cancer along with Korea in the whole world. You have to wonder what the government is thinking, or how much corrupt politicians are.

magduf 8y ago
The government is democratic, so it has to respond to the wishes of the voters. That said, it does seem like the Japanese government has made top-down efforts to change various things about the culture in that country, such as pushing companies to not overwork their employees so much.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

As a European I think the Second Amendment in the US is archaic. People stopped walking around with weapons in public 150 years ago. There are historical reasons for these harsh penalties. Japan saw what happened to China in the opium wars.

negus 8y ago
And do you often meet people with weapons in public in the US? I didn't. In fact, I met much more people with firearms in public in Israel. And guess what? It made me feel safer. Though I know that both topics are highly discussable. I disagree with you on "archaic Second Amendment", but I like that you have your right to disagree with it. The main problem mentioned in topic is not the weed consumption -- it's the taboo of even talking about it.
- deadbunny 8y ago
  I generally expect people to be armed in a warzone, not so much in a mall.
  - devcpp 8y ago
    If you have been in Israel you know that Tel Aviv is as much a warzone as NYC, and much less than Paris. Though, something has to be added for context: 95% of people in Israel walking around with weapons are soldiers. So of course you feel safer than next to a random hillbilly. This is not relevant to discussion about the 2nd amendment.
    - emptyfile 8y ago
      >If you have been in Israel you know that Tel Aviv is as much a warzone as NYC, and much less than Paris How so? Is the whole of Israel Tel Aviv? Is there not daily violence in Israel? Is there not a whole nation locked in a ghetto inside its borders? Is that not Israel? Only Tel Aviv is Israel? Great that you feel so safe near Israeli soldiers, I myself will never set foot in the country.
- 8y ago

Synaesthesia 8y ago

You can blame the US occupation for these laws, they didn't exist prior to 1945 when Cannabis was a part of Korean and Japanese traditional culture.

jsnider3 8y ago
This is mentioned in the article.

dkersten 8y ago

> The internet and its resources are available, yet no amount of reasoning or information gets through to a lot of people. This is a "normal" thing, there was a HN article about it some weeks back: often if someone has their mind made up about something, often no amount of facts, figures, logic and proof will change their minds. They may even see these things as personal attacks. Facts are, sadly, not an effective way to convince people. I'm currently reading the book "Never split the difference" by Chris Voss, a book on negotiation by a former FBI hostage negotiator. In it, he talks at length about why traditional negotiation techniques don't work: they assume that both sides are rational and can be persuaded through facts and value propositions. People aren't rational, they're emotional and to get through to someone, you need to get through to their emotional mind. The book then talks about different techniques he's used to do this, but the fundamental foundation seems to be to listen to what the other person is saying -- really, really listen -- and put yourself into their emotional shoes so you can understand not just what emotion they're feeling, but also why. He then uses rather simple techniques: he verbalises the emotions he thinks their feeling and the reasons. This forces the other person to acknowledge them (or correct him if he got it wrong), which has a calming effect, provides you with more information to work with and often makes the person realise if they're being unreasonable. That's only one technique used, of course, but you can see how he's not trying to engage their logical factual minds, but rather find a way to put out the emotional fires going on in the persons mind. I think these same principles apply when trying to convince someone of anything. If they have an emotional stake in the debate, then facts and logic aren't going to cut it, but talking to their emotions hostage-negotiator-style just might.

failrate 8y ago
I was just in a class on managing children's tantrums, and the advice is very, very similar. The mistake we make is assuming adults are fundamentally different feom children.
- dkersten 8y ago
  Absolutely! Chris even says in the book that while he perfected his art in hostage negotiations[1], they work just as well in business and in your personal life (and he even gave "negotiating your childs bedtime" as an example). I'm really enjoying the book, both in terms of what I'm learning and entertainment. I highly recommend it! [1] The unique thing about hostage negotiations is that you have to get what you want, or people may die, and you can't give anything meaningful in return. Most situations aren't quite that drastic, of course.

rayiner 8y ago

It’s the association of marijuana with laziness/lack of ambition, which is a cardinal sin in Asian culture.

chrischen 8y ago
I think a lot of the “hard working” stereotyoe of Asians in America (mostly Chinese and Koreans) come from the fact they are immigrants and start from the bottom once they get here.
- magduf 8y ago
  What's interesting is that Hispanic immigrants start from the bottom, yet they usually don't go very high up the social ladder, don't get an education, etc., while Asian immigrants become doctors. I wonder if anyone's done any real research on this.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    This is misleading. Hispanics as a whole haven't risen very much (but are rising) because there's a consistent inflow of new immigrants. Many also also return to their home countries after making a decent chunk of money. So this gives the appearance of not being successful. Populations of Hispanics that do stay in the US for larger stretches of time have been successful. Cuban Americans, for example, have higher than average incomes and education rates: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans
    - magduf 8y ago
      >Cuban Americans, for example, have higher than average incomes and education rates Compared to Asian-Americans though? Maybe I'm biased though, because I've never been to Florida which is where most of them seem to be located.
      - manfredo 8y ago

charliebrownau 8y ago

The same issues we have in the west No matter how much information , proof and facts you provide about:- * Almost ALL MSM and Western Society has been taken over by the left * Companies DO and are censoring people based on supporting democracy (right wing) * LEFT is about Global Socialism take over of EU+West * Feminism is SOCIALISM * Duluth Model exists * Metoo changes the concept of western LAW at fundamental levels * Gynoctic system exists * Feminism and DUTHAL model is designed to remove ALL accountability ad responsibilities for women * Not everyone wants to live in an 1 story 3 bedroom 1 car park home and infact more and more increasing single people in society are happy to live in an - Tiny home - 1 bedroom unit - or 1 bedroom tiny home and be left alone Yes we can be happy alone We dont need:- - No idiots smoking near us - No idiots with 500% bass from their stereo We just want to be alone, individuals to live in peace without dealing with the mainstream "normies"

scottlocklin 8y ago

Comparing literally any index of social dysfunction; crime, divorce, homelessness, mental illness rates: no Westerner has any right to lecture Japan (or South Korea) on how they run their country no matter how many "muh weed" articles they can find on the internet.

MuffinFlavored 8y ago
Can you elaborate?
magduf 8y ago
Japan has ridiculously low crime rates, yes, but they also have extremely high suicide rates, so your point about mental illness rates doesn't hold water. Also, crime and murder rates in many western European countries are also quite low, though not as low as Japan of course. It's only America that has terrible murder rates (esp. by guns), but America is not like other Western nations in many ways, so you shouldn't lump them together, just as you shouldn't lump Japan and China together.
- scottlocklin 8y ago
  Related: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-diseases-flare-as-unsanitary-living-conditions-proliferate/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/medieval-diseases... Japanese don't see suicide as something medicalized as in the West. It's also not much different in rates per 100k from suicide in the West, and the idea that they're exceptional here is ... well, kind of a dumb racial stereotype. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan