5 ms·

Using 4LW to reach sites with domains seized by the DHS

48 points by Rabidgremlin 16y ago

its2010already 16y ago
How about just putting those entries in your /etc/hosts file?
tomjen3 16y ago
Its a cool idea, but ultimately it won't help, because sites like these are only worth something if a lot of people know they are there. A better solution is to create a de-centralized DNS system.
- Rabidgremlin 16y ago
  I suspect we are more likely to see splinter DNS networks get set up and people will just learn how to add these servers to their configs for name resolution... Can also see a future where the public Internet is deemed completely untrustworthy and everyone just connects with trusted parties over VPNs.... EDIT: I'd forgotten about these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
  - benologist 16y ago
    I suspect even more that nothing will actually happen. People know there's risk in running torrent sites, they bet the ad revenue will outweigh it and eventually they lose.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  Yeah, then the Internet could route around the damage, as designed.
wccrawford 16y ago
It'd be a lot easier to just write down the IP. Nobody is going to actually remember those words, and if they're on a shared IP it's not going to get to them anyhow. And if they change IPs (because their host shut them down because the government forced it) then the 4 words are worthless.
- wdaher 16y ago
  Agreed. In fact, DNS was developed basically to address many of the problems with this (admittedly cute) idea :) Its ancestor was basically a system where'd you download a new hosts file every day -- which was doable when the Internet was small, but didn't scale well. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_(file)#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_(file)#History
trotsky 16y ago
Of course it's actually easier to use bgp to hijack and blackhole a route for an IPv4 address than it is to get new nameservers inserted for a specific domain at the roots. If folks moved to rely on a system that didn't involve lookups, it would become even easier to take them down.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  isn't bgp limited to send messages for at least /24?
  - trotsky 16y ago
    technically no, but practically yes - most implementations discard routes more specific than a /24 to prevent their routing tables from becoming unmanageable. Stealing a /24 is an awful amount of leverage in convincing the ISP to disconnect a /32 as long as you have enough pull to ensure large networks will continue to respect your routes.
sage_joch 16y ago
It'd be nice if search engines could link to IPs rather than names for domains that have been censored.
- jorgem 16y ago
  Isn't it funny how google fights censorship in china, but not a peep when it's in the USA?
antimatter15 16y ago
I'm not sure why it looks that the URL is through the coral cache, and it's making the site really slow. http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2010/11/28/4-little-words/ http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2010/11/28/4-little-words/ It's a nice idea, though the word list may be refined a bit, and there could be larger word lists and something that takes account of nouns/verbs to create more cohesive sentences.
- Rabidgremlin 16y ago
  URL is via coral cache so that my tiny weeny webserver doesn't go bang :)
Rabidgremlin 16y ago
Interestingly it now looks like some sites are getting blocked by IP address as well... http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c1734iq http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...
- tomjen3 16y ago
  not really, the dude just got ice ip address, and not the one the site used.
- Rabidgremlin 16y ago
  False alarm:) http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c1735g1 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...
tlrobinson 16y ago
Neat idea, now someone needs to setup DNS on a short domain to point to the correct IP, e.x. http://LICK.GORY.ULAN.MUTT.4lw.com http://LICK.GORY.ULAN.MUTT.4lw.com would point to 174.143.242.193 Of course, this won't work on virtual hosts. Edit: or you could just setup a parallel DNS under your own namespace, e.x. rabidgremlin.com.4lw.com would point to 174.143.242.193 Of course that requires manual administration.
- jf 16y ago
  This would be pretty easy to do with WebDNS: https://github.com/progrium/webdns https://github.com/progrium/webdns
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
a_magical_me 16y ago
I wrote a script to translate IP addresses into 4LW and back again. https://gist.github.com/718549 https://gist.github.com/718549
nl 16y ago
This is a good start, but won't work for HTTP 1.1 multi-site hosting. The browser needs to send the HOST header with the correct host name, otherwise you'll just get the default site at that IP.
Rabidgremlin 16y ago
I love the fact that someone has turned my idea into a DNS server! Check out: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c173gj3 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...

48 points by Rabidgremlin 16y ago

its2010already 16y ago

How about just putting those entries in your /etc/hosts file?

Its a cool idea, but ultimately it won't help, because sites like these are only worth something if a lot of people know they are there. A better solution is to create a de-centralized DNS system.

Rabidgremlin 16y ago
I suspect we are more likely to see splinter DNS networks get set up and people will just learn how to add these servers to their configs for name resolution... Can also see a future where the public Internet is deemed completely untrustworthy and everyone just connects with trusted parties over VPNs.... EDIT: I'd forgotten about these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
- benologist 16y ago
  I suspect even more that nothing will actually happen. People know there's risk in running torrent sites, they bet the ad revenue will outweigh it and eventually they lose.
Vivtek 16y ago
Yeah, then the Internet could route around the damage, as designed.

wccrawford 16y ago

It'd be a lot easier to just write down the IP. Nobody is going to actually remember those words, and if they're on a shared IP it's not going to get to them anyhow. And if they change IPs (because their host shut them down because the government forced it) then the 4 words are worthless.

wdaher 16y ago
Agreed. In fact, DNS was developed basically to address many of the problems with this (admittedly cute) idea :) Its ancestor was basically a system where'd you download a new hosts file every day -- which was doable when the Internet was small, but didn't scale well. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_(file)#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_(file)#History

trotsky 16y ago

Of course it's actually easier to use bgp to hijack and blackhole a route for an IPv4 address than it is to get new nameservers inserted for a specific domain at the roots. If folks moved to rely on a system that didn't involve lookups, it would become even easier to take them down.

tomjen3 16y ago
isn't bgp limited to send messages for at least /24?
- trotsky 16y ago
  technically no, but practically yes - most implementations discard routes more specific than a /24 to prevent their routing tables from becoming unmanageable. Stealing a /24 is an awful amount of leverage in convincing the ISP to disconnect a /32 as long as you have enough pull to ensure large networks will continue to respect your routes.

sage_joch 16y ago

It'd be nice if search engines could link to IPs rather than names for domains that have been censored.

jorgem 16y ago
Isn't it funny how google fights censorship in china, but not a peep when it's in the USA?

antimatter15 16y ago

I'm not sure why it looks that the URL is through the coral cache, and it's making the site really slow. http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2010/11/28/4-little-words/ http://blog.rabidgremlin.com/2010/11/28/4-little-words/ It's a nice idea, though the word list may be refined a bit, and there could be larger word lists and something that takes account of nouns/verbs to create more cohesive sentences.

Rabidgremlin 16y ago
URL is via coral cache so that my tiny weeny webserver doesn't go bang :)

Rabidgremlin 16y ago

Interestingly it now looks like some sites are getting blocked by IP address as well... http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c1734iq http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...

tomjen3 16y ago
not really, the dude just got ice ip address, and not the one the site used.
Rabidgremlin 16y ago
False alarm:) http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c1735g1 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...

tlrobinson 16y ago

Neat idea, now someone needs to setup DNS on a short domain to point to the correct IP, e.x. http://LICK.GORY.ULAN.MUTT.4lw.com http://LICK.GORY.ULAN.MUTT.4lw.com would point to 174.143.242.193 Of course, this won't work on virtual hosts. Edit: or you could just setup a parallel DNS under your own namespace, e.x. rabidgremlin.com.4lw.com would point to 174.143.242.193 Of course that requires manual administration.

jf 16y ago
This would be pretty easy to do with WebDNS: https://github.com/progrium/webdns https://github.com/progrium/webdns

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

a_magical_me 16y ago

I wrote a script to translate IP addresses into 4LW and back again. https://gist.github.com/718549 https://gist.github.com/718549

nl 16y ago

This is a good start, but won't work for HTTP 1.1 multi-site hosting. The browser needs to send the HOST header with the correct host name, otherwise you'll just get the default site at that IP.

Rabidgremlin 16y ago

I love the fact that someone has turned my idea into a DNS server! Check out: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_little_word_protocol_4lw_for_remembering/c173gj3 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ecllk/the_4_litt...