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I always like to think that the initial waves of human interstellar colonization will be a historical rhyme with the Polynesian expansion---a loose federation o

I always like to think that the initial waves of human interstellar colonization will be a historical rhyme with the Polynesian expansion---a loose federation of populations separated by distances barely-surmountable by technology, inexorably drifting toward unique cultural identities.

pvg 8y ago
A tub carved out of a log or a big basket has a better shot at getting you to a nearby island than anything we have offering the remotest possibility of getting to even the nearest star. There's no technological parallel between these things, much as we wish there was.
- derefr 8y ago
  The GP's point wasn't that there is a technological parallel in the process, but that there would be a sociological parallel in the result.
  - pvg 8y ago
    a loose federation of populations separated by distances barely-surmountable by technology There is no obvious, analogous path to this happening with interstellar travel, even if you stipulate a civilization that has a strong interest and incentive in navigating and exploiting solar system space.
    - function_seven 8y ago
      Not yet. Nearest stars are only a few light years away. The journey might span a few generations. The raft will be a self-sufficient colony that converts onboard matter via fission or fusion to energy, and that energy into every other necessity for sustaining life. It'll first start out as a proof of concept, only traveling around the local planets. Just like seafaring was first just a fishing thing near the coast. Maybe they try their hand at colonizing Titan first Then one day, some group will decide to risk it and push off into space. Their distant ancestors will arrive at a suitable planet, and decide to give it a whirl. All of this is just fun to think about, but just like the settlers of Polynesia 1,000 years ago, it's not unfathomable that 1,000 years into the future, we would have the means to engineer something like this. If we don't annihilate ourselves first. That's the historical rhyme.
      - pvg 8y ago
        Nearest stars are only a few light years away. There isn't anything 'only' about it and it's what makes something like the development of ocean navigation structurally completely different. You can swim to an island a mile out and the most isolated island is about 2000 times more distant. Every bit of technology incrementally developed to cover that distance is useful in its own right. Every use of the technology comes with a chance of serendipitous discovery. Proxima Centauri is 100k+ times more distant than Mars. No asteroid belt miner is going to get blown off course and end up on Sirius. Nobody is going to build the 0.3 ly range ship because it might be good for taking tourists to a mindfulness retreat on Pluto. It rhymes like pickle rhymes with motorcycle. You have to really believe it.
- marktangotango 8y ago
  Nuclear pulse propulsion can theoretically reach .1c. Forty years to Alpha Centauri. One could argue it’s a matter of engineering and motivation, not known physics.
  - robotrout 8y ago
    At 0.1c, that 40 years will just whip by for the travelers themselves. To them, it will only seem like ... 39.8 years (doh!) No help there.
  - simonh 8y ago
    It's just not sustainable though. Who is going to build a 10 million ton vehicle to deliver a 400 ton payload? It's the Apollo model of space travel. It might be a lot more feasible with longer journeys, but is a transit time of a dozen or more generations really going to be attractive? There are considerable barriers. Just because you can put a number on something doesn't make it practical. To put it another way, what distance between stars would you say would make it impractical to spread between them via colonisation? Where would you put the threshold?
Critik 8y ago
Already ready: http://www.openminds.tv/hawaii-ufo-landing-pad/28480 http://www.openminds.tv/hawaii-ufo-landing-pad/28480 Build it and they will come (?)

pvg 8y ago

A tub carved out of a log or a big basket has a better shot at getting you to a nearby island than anything we have offering the remotest possibility of getting to even the nearest star. There's no technological parallel between these things, much as we wish there was.

derefr 8y ago
The GP's point wasn't that there is a technological parallel in the process, but that there would be a sociological parallel in the result.
- pvg 8y ago
  a loose federation of populations separated by distances barely-surmountable by technology There is no obvious, analogous path to this happening with interstellar travel, even if you stipulate a civilization that has a strong interest and incentive in navigating and exploiting solar system space.
  - function_seven 8y ago
    Not yet. Nearest stars are only a few light years away. The journey might span a few generations. The raft will be a self-sufficient colony that converts onboard matter via fission or fusion to energy, and that energy into every other necessity for sustaining life. It'll first start out as a proof of concept, only traveling around the local planets. Just like seafaring was first just a fishing thing near the coast. Maybe they try their hand at colonizing Titan first Then one day, some group will decide to risk it and push off into space. Their distant ancestors will arrive at a suitable planet, and decide to give it a whirl. All of this is just fun to think about, but just like the settlers of Polynesia 1,000 years ago, it's not unfathomable that 1,000 years into the future, we would have the means to engineer something like this. If we don't annihilate ourselves first. That's the historical rhyme.
    - pvg 8y ago
      Nearest stars are only a few light years away. There isn't anything 'only' about it and it's what makes something like the development of ocean navigation structurally completely different. You can swim to an island a mile out and the most isolated island is about 2000 times more distant. Every bit of technology incrementally developed to cover that distance is useful in its own right. Every use of the technology comes with a chance of serendipitous discovery. Proxima Centauri is 100k+ times more distant than Mars. No asteroid belt miner is going to get blown off course and end up on Sirius. Nobody is going to build the 0.3 ly range ship because it might be good for taking tourists to a mindfulness retreat on Pluto. It rhymes like pickle rhymes with motorcycle. You have to really believe it.
marktangotango 8y ago
Nuclear pulse propulsion can theoretically reach .1c. Forty years to Alpha Centauri. One could argue it’s a matter of engineering and motivation, not known physics.
- robotrout 8y ago
  At 0.1c, that 40 years will just whip by for the travelers themselves. To them, it will only seem like ... 39.8 years (doh!) No help there.
- simonh 8y ago
  It's just not sustainable though. Who is going to build a 10 million ton vehicle to deliver a 400 ton payload? It's the Apollo model of space travel. It might be a lot more feasible with longer journeys, but is a transit time of a dozen or more generations really going to be attractive? There are considerable barriers. Just because you can put a number on something doesn't make it practical. To put it another way, what distance between stars would you say would make it impractical to spread between them via colonisation? Where would you put the threshold?

Critik 8y ago

Already ready: http://www.openminds.tv/hawaii-ufo-landing-pad/28480 http://www.openminds.tv/hawaii-ufo-landing-pad/28480 Build it and they will come (?)