4 ms·

If there's damage reduction, how can French terrorists outfit themselves like Soviet soldiers circa 1982? It's getting easier to manufacture high quality firear

If there's damage reduction, how can French terrorists outfit themselves like Soviet soldiers circa 1982? It's getting easier to manufacture high quality firearms on your own, not harder.

ceejayoz 8y ago
If NZ shared a continent with Eastern Europe, they'd probably have more trouble. I suspect it's substantially harder to bring guns into a country surrounded by ocean (especially one with just a handful of air/sea ports) than it is to just walk them across minimal land borders. People still manage to murder, but that doesn't mean we make it legal.
- Kephael 8y ago
  The only parts that are difficult to make are the pressure bearing parts, and those can be ordered and shipped into the country via a freight forwarding service. Changes in the law only stop the dysfunctional, mentally ill but not terrorists. I can literally bake a lower receiver out of plastic in my oven or make one on my 3D printer. For something a bit nicer I can buy, and setup a CNC machine which only cost a few thousand dollars.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Sure. Just like you could strangle someone to death, but doing so is still illegal. Yes, you can probably build or smuggle a gun if you're determined enough. I'm OK with stopping "the dysfunctional, mentally ill" you mention, and having them be outright illegal increases the chances of someone seeing them and tipping off the cops, being dunned in by an informant, or them being intercepted at customs, a traffic stop, etc. You correctly highlight that this sort of thing is difficult, and won't ever be a 100% solution. Your apparent conclusion - that we shouldn't ever do anything - doesn't logically follow.
    - Kephael 8y ago
      It's easy for someone who is somewhat mechanically inclined to manufacture a firearm, these law changes will not stop the next terrorist attack in New Zealand.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        Of course not. That's a tautology. It may reduce the frequency and effectiveness of such attacks, as Australia's tightening of gun laws did for shootings. I'll take it.
      - Kephael 8y ago
        All this does is further disarm the populace and makes it even easier to carry out an attack. Australia or New Zealand could have an attack like this happen tomorrow, it's not like they are able to keep handguns and drugs away from your normal criminal gang member there, let alone a determined terrorist.
        ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
        "All this does is further disarm the populace and makes it even easier to carry out an attack." If the majority of school shootings etc in the States we're stopped by the populace with guns then yeah I'd agree with you.
    - LyndsySimon 8y ago
      > increases the chances of someone seeing them and tipping off the cops Based on my experience (in the US), almost no one outside of "firearms enthusiasts" is capable of distinguishing between legal and illegal configurations. In many cases, even those who do know the specific differences aren't in consensus on what is legal and what isn't.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        Sure, because in the US an extremely wide variety of firearms are entirely legal. NZ is about to get quite limited in their permitted weapons.
- CompanionCuuube 8y ago
  > People still manage to murder, but that doesn't mean we make it legal. No, because murder is harmful in itself. Guns are not. Knives are not. Ropes are not. Trucks are not.
CompanionCuuube 8y ago
There's strong evidence that it wasn't even the types of guns that made a difference in Australia. http://theconversation.com/regulating-people-not-just-guns-might-explain-australias-decline-in-mass-shootings-44770 http://theconversation.com/regulating-people-not-just-guns-m...

If there's damage reduction, how can French terrorists outfit themselves like Soviet soldiers circa 1982? It's getting easier to manufacture high quality firearms on your own, not harder.

ceejayoz 8y ago

If NZ shared a continent with Eastern Europe, they'd probably have more trouble. I suspect it's substantially harder to bring guns into a country surrounded by ocean (especially one with just a handful of air/sea ports) than it is to just walk them across minimal land borders. People still manage to murder, but that doesn't mean we make it legal.

Kephael 8y ago
The only parts that are difficult to make are the pressure bearing parts, and those can be ordered and shipped into the country via a freight forwarding service. Changes in the law only stop the dysfunctional, mentally ill but not terrorists. I can literally bake a lower receiver out of plastic in my oven or make one on my 3D printer. For something a bit nicer I can buy, and setup a CNC machine which only cost a few thousand dollars.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Sure. Just like you could strangle someone to death, but doing so is still illegal. Yes, you can probably build or smuggle a gun if you're determined enough. I'm OK with stopping "the dysfunctional, mentally ill" you mention, and having them be outright illegal increases the chances of someone seeing them and tipping off the cops, being dunned in by an informant, or them being intercepted at customs, a traffic stop, etc. You correctly highlight that this sort of thing is difficult, and won't ever be a 100% solution. Your apparent conclusion - that we shouldn't ever do anything - doesn't logically follow.
  - Kephael 8y ago
    It's easy for someone who is somewhat mechanically inclined to manufacture a firearm, these law changes will not stop the next terrorist attack in New Zealand.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Of course not. That's a tautology. It may reduce the frequency and effectiveness of such attacks, as Australia's tightening of gun laws did for shootings. I'll take it.
    - Kephael 8y ago
      All this does is further disarm the populace and makes it even easier to carry out an attack. Australia or New Zealand could have an attack like this happen tomorrow, it's not like they are able to keep handguns and drugs away from your normal criminal gang member there, let alone a determined terrorist.
      - ElCapitanMarkla 8y ago
        "All this does is further disarm the populace and makes it even easier to carry out an attack." If the majority of school shootings etc in the States we're stopped by the populace with guns then yeah I'd agree with you.
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    > increases the chances of someone seeing them and tipping off the cops Based on my experience (in the US), almost no one outside of "firearms enthusiasts" is capable of distinguishing between legal and illegal configurations. In many cases, even those who do know the specific differences aren't in consensus on what is legal and what isn't.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Sure, because in the US an extremely wide variety of firearms are entirely legal. NZ is about to get quite limited in their permitted weapons.
CompanionCuuube 8y ago
> People still manage to murder, but that doesn't mean we make it legal. No, because murder is harmful in itself. Guns are not. Knives are not. Ropes are not. Trucks are not.

CompanionCuuube 8y ago

There's strong evidence that it wasn't even the types of guns that made a difference in Australia. http://theconversation.com/regulating-people-not-just-guns-might-explain-australias-decline-in-mass-shootings-44770 http://theconversation.com/regulating-people-not-just-guns-m...