8 ms·

Reasons to Quit Twitter and Facebook and Switch to Mastodon

60 points by yogthos 8y ago

h3ckr 8y ago
Never heard about Mastodon, it’d have been nice if the article explained what it is. Is this yet another startup promising they won’t become a merciless corporation? Great value prop, lol
- MrEldritch 8y ago
  Technical answer: Mastodon isn't a startup - it's not even a company. It's a framework, like phpBB forums were (are, I guess). Basically, it's a way that anyone with a web server can set up a Twitter-clone site, but - thanks to the ActivityPub protocol - all those twitter-clones can talk to each other, making the whole universe of Mastodon instances functionally one giant social network. Mastodon:Twitter::IRC:Facebook Messenger Practical answer: Mastodon is a Twitter clone that's currently pretty nice and enjoyable by virtue of being small. It's also decentralized, which is a cool buzzword, but also in practice means that it's nicely broken up into a bunch of small specialized communities in each Mastodon instance that can feel pretty cozy and friendly, way less overwhelming than Twitter. The really unique thing about it is that it's a weirdo open-source-y alternative social network that actually doesn't appear to be dying off like Diaspora or Voat or Steemit or whatever did - it seems to have reached a sort of social critical mass where people are sticking around because they genuinely enjoy the company and interactions with other users, and is growing at a sustainable rate.
  - chrisco255 8y ago
    Would enjoy an article that goes into more of these details. They have a pretty good video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IPSbNdBmWKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IPSbNdBmWKE https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/
- redwall_hp 8y ago
  It's an alternate implementation of the GNU Social protocols. It's an open and federated platform (like email).
  - WorldMaker 8y ago
    Mastodon doesn't use [GNU Social] OStatus protocols as much anymore. Most of Mastodon federation work has moved to the ActivityPub protocol, which as in the nature of most such standards some proponents see as the natural successor to OStatus and others as an incompatible fork.
- olliej 8y ago
  It’s essentially a decentralized Twitter-like system. There are multiple clients with varying degrees of good UI (textual and graphical). I felt that the real problem is the same most new networks have: everyone is on other centralized networks The other problem is discoverability is challenging. My experience trying to find people worth following was kind of meh: it seemed like it was (I’m still not sure if this is accurate) necessary to connect to Multiple different servers, to follow people who had chosen different servers as their main account. Maybe it would be better with more usability? But fundamentally it has to compete with network effects of other platforms, and most users simply do not care about centralization: it’s not a selling point, it’s just a fact
- chartier 8y ago
  Good call. I just added an elevator pitch for what Mastodon is to the introduction. To save you a click: “What is Mastodon? My elevator pitch is that it’s a social network for sharing short messages, photos, links, and more that is built by and for people. It’s open source and federated, which means there are no ads, no invasive tracking, no shareholders to demand #maximum #engagement, and no single company or server that can be shut down. It already has over 2 million users, and you can learn more at JoinMastodon.org.”
- ujhmi6 8y ago
  Theoretically, Mastodon is a federated network that exists to enable free speech because of how evil those big corporations such as Twitter and Facebook are. In reality, Mastodon is just one single network (because who'd want to tweet alone) which is even more tightly moderated than Twitter or Facebook.
  - yogthos 8y ago
    That's flat out wrong. Mastodon has over 2 million active users now, so you're not tweeting alone there, and there is not one single network. Different instances federate with each other, and there are lots of different subgroups that focus on all kinds of topics and interests. The model more akin to Reddit subreddits than Twitter in that regard.
axor 8y ago
Will take a look, I’m in the alpha of Openbook.social ATM
Yizahi 8y ago
THe problem with Mastodon is a) discoverability and b) Twitter-like UI. Both of which I find hard enough to not bother with it at all. (disclaimer - I never used Twitter due to what I think is a horrible UI) I registered in Mastodon long time ago, when first articles appeared, followed some random maybe interesting people, tried writing a few posts and just dropped. I still have client installed on my phone but last time I opened it was half a year ago. And I use other social networks daily. Instead of writing Twitter clone they should have done a LiveJournal of Facebook clone, with better interface, different approach to privacy and discoverability etc. But being Twitter-like it is simply not that interesting.
- messo 8y ago
  The beauty of the Fediverse is interoperability. Friendica (a Facebook-like social network) is currently implementing the ActivityPub protocol, which makes it possible for Mastodon users to follow and communicate with people on Friendica servers. If you don't like the Mastodon UI you can always try Pleroma, PixelFed or a number of other ActivityPub projects offering wildly different UI's. It's early days still, but the Fediverse is growing steadily.
- artichokeheart 8y ago
  Mastodon is only a client to the ActivityPub protocol. There are other clients that look more like Facebook. But yes discoverability is an issue because it's hard in a federated environment.
  - artichokeheart 8y ago
    Actually StatusNet had a good solution for discoverability groups. An equivalent is an outstanding issue for ActtivityPub https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/328 https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/328
nextlevelwizard 8y ago
>They are quickly banned from most instances (think of them like interconnected communities, or servers). The few instances that allow them are blocked by all the others. Toxic actors are effectively ostracized from the greater community. Is banning and ostracizing for wrong think really the way we want to go? It works as long as you are on the politically correct side.
- shapiro92 8y ago
  I was gonna talk about the same thing. Yes some topics might be black and white, but what about the ones that have a gray side? There are so many problems that arise, in the same way extremists could gain majority and outcast other people. This also creates an unhealthy environment in which discussions are not open due to being afraid of being banned. Expression of the majority over-rules the right of expression and this is not right.
  - yogthos 8y ago
    We already know that centralized social media has a huge problem with bubbles right now, and this problem is a direct result of companies trying to monetize the users and keep them engaged. On the other hand, federation is a self organizing system where the networks grow completely organically. This is much closer to how humans organize and interact offline. Everybody can run an instance, and they can choose how they moderate it and whom they federate with. There's no single company deciding what's right or wrong for everybody. There are going to be all kinds of extreme bubbles, as well as moderate ones, and everything in between.
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  One thing of note is that unlike centralized systems that completely kick them out, this systems merely sequesters them, so they can still talk among themselves and have no reason to actively fight against the system and constantly create new accounts. Containment based systems work better for everyone involved.
  - username3 8y ago
zach43 8y ago
one of the coolest things about mastodon and pleroma is that you can just start your own instance and immediately federate with the rest of the network. this means that if youre unhappy with the moderation in a community, if you want to own your own data/privacy, or if you want to use self-hosted software, you can just do that with mastodon. a few weeks back i went through a pleroma guide and set up my own pleroma instance. it only took a few hours, and it has been running for over a month on a $5 Linode (1 GB RAM). i migrated from mastodon.social, and it carried over everyone i was following seamlessly. i get that the whole decentralized thing has been blown out of proportion in the past, but in the fediverse (mastodon, pleroma, GNU social, etc) it is working quite well.
shoover 8y ago
I set up a private Mastodon server for my family several weeks ago and we're loving it. It's a mighty impressive Rails/React app, very well designed and implemented. I have a few minor UI quibbles based on experience with twitter, but the design is really good, responsive, and snappy. The kids run Fedilab on hand-me-down, wifi-only Android phones and just go to town with emojis, gifs, and photos. The parents share more of their days with the kids rather than only texting each other. The setup guide is great--I followed it on a 1GB Vultr VPS and was up and running easily, except for one maddening hurdle, which is that on 1GB server you do need a swap file to successfully precompile JS assets. See [1] for the workaround. I guess this is just normal in 2019. Otherwise all the services run fine with 1GB once compiled. I wish it supported locking down public posts at the admin level, but that's just my use case. The login system blocks most access, and public posts can be blocked with nginx authentication and tweaking the list of streams flagged public in the streaming service. [1] https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5836#issuecomment-352225419 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5836#issuecomme...
- shoover 8y ago
  Ah, they have a card in progress for a one-click Digital Ocean install [1]. Fantastic! This is an incredible open source project to watch, not your typical library or system service, but a real, polished app. Polls functionality is in master, just waiting for release. My kids are going to love this. [1] - https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/projects/8#card-18545229 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/projects/8#card-185452...
imagetic 8y ago
Admittedly, I spent next to no real time investigating, but I did sign up and attempt to use it after some friends recommended it. There is no way any normal non-tech savvy person is going to go through that many hoops. I also couldn't figure out how to search other servers with any success. So unless I bring people I want to connect with into a server, I'm not grasping what good it's going to do as a social tool.
- lukewrites 8y ago
  +1 to this, searching & browsing across instances is a major pain point. To me, joining a Mastodon instance has felt way more like joining a forum than getting on a federated social network. I still like the instance I joined, though. Really nice people. Check out fosstodon.org if you're interested :)

60 points by yogthos 8y ago

Never heard about Mastodon, it’d have been nice if the article explained what it is. Is this yet another startup promising they won’t become a merciless corporation? Great value prop, lol

MrEldritch 8y ago
Technical answer: Mastodon isn't a startup - it's not even a company. It's a framework, like phpBB forums were (are, I guess). Basically, it's a way that anyone with a web server can set up a Twitter-clone site, but - thanks to the ActivityPub protocol - all those twitter-clones can talk to each other, making the whole universe of Mastodon instances functionally one giant social network. Mastodon:Twitter::IRC:Facebook Messenger Practical answer: Mastodon is a Twitter clone that's currently pretty nice and enjoyable by virtue of being small. It's also decentralized, which is a cool buzzword, but also in practice means that it's nicely broken up into a bunch of small specialized communities in each Mastodon instance that can feel pretty cozy and friendly, way less overwhelming than Twitter. The really unique thing about it is that it's a weirdo open-source-y alternative social network that actually doesn't appear to be dying off like Diaspora or Voat or Steemit or whatever did - it seems to have reached a sort of social critical mass where people are sticking around because they genuinely enjoy the company and interactions with other users, and is growing at a sustainable rate.
- chrisco255 8y ago
  Would enjoy an article that goes into more of these details. They have a pretty good video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IPSbNdBmWKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IPSbNdBmWKE https://joinmastodon.org/ https://joinmastodon.org/
redwall_hp 8y ago
It's an alternate implementation of the GNU Social protocols. It's an open and federated platform (like email).
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  Mastodon doesn't use [GNU Social] OStatus protocols as much anymore. Most of Mastodon federation work has moved to the ActivityPub protocol, which as in the nature of most such standards some proponents see as the natural successor to OStatus and others as an incompatible fork.
olliej 8y ago
It’s essentially a decentralized Twitter-like system. There are multiple clients with varying degrees of good UI (textual and graphical). I felt that the real problem is the same most new networks have: everyone is on other centralized networks The other problem is discoverability is challenging. My experience trying to find people worth following was kind of meh: it seemed like it was (I’m still not sure if this is accurate) necessary to connect to Multiple different servers, to follow people who had chosen different servers as their main account. Maybe it would be better with more usability? But fundamentally it has to compete with network effects of other platforms, and most users simply do not care about centralization: it’s not a selling point, it’s just a fact
chartier 8y ago
Good call. I just added an elevator pitch for what Mastodon is to the introduction. To save you a click: “What is Mastodon? My elevator pitch is that it’s a social network for sharing short messages, photos, links, and more that is built by and for people. It’s open source and federated, which means there are no ads, no invasive tracking, no shareholders to demand #maximum #engagement, and no single company or server that can be shut down. It already has over 2 million users, and you can learn more at JoinMastodon.org.”
ujhmi6 8y ago
Theoretically, Mastodon is a federated network that exists to enable free speech because of how evil those big corporations such as Twitter and Facebook are. In reality, Mastodon is just one single network (because who'd want to tweet alone) which is even more tightly moderated than Twitter or Facebook.
- yogthos 8y ago
  That's flat out wrong. Mastodon has over 2 million active users now, so you're not tweeting alone there, and there is not one single network. Different instances federate with each other, and there are lots of different subgroups that focus on all kinds of topics and interests. The model more akin to Reddit subreddits than Twitter in that regard.

axor 8y ago

Will take a look, I’m in the alpha of Openbook.social ATM

Yizahi 8y ago

THe problem with Mastodon is a) discoverability and b) Twitter-like UI. Both of which I find hard enough to not bother with it at all. (disclaimer - I never used Twitter due to what I think is a horrible UI) I registered in Mastodon long time ago, when first articles appeared, followed some random maybe interesting people, tried writing a few posts and just dropped. I still have client installed on my phone but last time I opened it was half a year ago. And I use other social networks daily. Instead of writing Twitter clone they should have done a LiveJournal of Facebook clone, with better interface, different approach to privacy and discoverability etc. But being Twitter-like it is simply not that interesting.

messo 8y ago
The beauty of the Fediverse is interoperability. Friendica (a Facebook-like social network) is currently implementing the ActivityPub protocol, which makes it possible for Mastodon users to follow and communicate with people on Friendica servers. If you don't like the Mastodon UI you can always try Pleroma, PixelFed or a number of other ActivityPub projects offering wildly different UI's. It's early days still, but the Fediverse is growing steadily.
artichokeheart 8y ago
Mastodon is only a client to the ActivityPub protocol. There are other clients that look more like Facebook. But yes discoverability is an issue because it's hard in a federated environment.
- artichokeheart 8y ago
  Actually StatusNet had a good solution for discoverability groups. An equivalent is an outstanding issue for ActtivityPub https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/328 https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/328

nextlevelwizard 8y ago

>They are quickly banned from most instances (think of them like interconnected communities, or servers). The few instances that allow them are blocked by all the others. Toxic actors are effectively ostracized from the greater community. Is banning and ostracizing for wrong think really the way we want to go? It works as long as you are on the politically correct side.

shapiro92 8y ago
I was gonna talk about the same thing. Yes some topics might be black and white, but what about the ones that have a gray side? There are so many problems that arise, in the same way extremists could gain majority and outcast other people. This also creates an unhealthy environment in which discussions are not open due to being afraid of being banned. Expression of the majority over-rules the right of expression and this is not right.
- yogthos 8y ago
  We already know that centralized social media has a huge problem with bubbles right now, and this problem is a direct result of companies trying to monetize the users and keep them engaged. On the other hand, federation is a self organizing system where the networks grow completely organically. This is much closer to how humans organize and interact offline. Everybody can run an instance, and they can choose how they moderate it and whom they federate with. There's no single company deciding what's right or wrong for everybody. There are going to be all kinds of extreme bubbles, as well as moderate ones, and everything in between.
tomatotomato37 8y ago
One thing of note is that unlike centralized systems that completely kick them out, this systems merely sequesters them, so they can still talk among themselves and have no reason to actively fight against the system and constantly create new accounts. Containment based systems work better for everyone involved.
- username3 8y ago

zach43 8y ago

one of the coolest things about mastodon and pleroma is that you can just start your own instance and immediately federate with the rest of the network. this means that if youre unhappy with the moderation in a community, if you want to own your own data/privacy, or if you want to use self-hosted software, you can just do that with mastodon. a few weeks back i went through a pleroma guide and set up my own pleroma instance. it only took a few hours, and it has been running for over a month on a $5 Linode (1 GB RAM). i migrated from mastodon.social, and it carried over everyone i was following seamlessly. i get that the whole decentralized thing has been blown out of proportion in the past, but in the fediverse (mastodon, pleroma, GNU social, etc) it is working quite well.

shoover 8y ago

I set up a private Mastodon server for my family several weeks ago and we're loving it. It's a mighty impressive Rails/React app, very well designed and implemented. I have a few minor UI quibbles based on experience with twitter, but the design is really good, responsive, and snappy. The kids run Fedilab on hand-me-down, wifi-only Android phones and just go to town with emojis, gifs, and photos. The parents share more of their days with the kids rather than only texting each other. The setup guide is great--I followed it on a 1GB Vultr VPS and was up and running easily, except for one maddening hurdle, which is that on 1GB server you do need a swap file to successfully precompile JS assets. See [1] for the workaround. I guess this is just normal in 2019. Otherwise all the services run fine with 1GB once compiled. I wish it supported locking down public posts at the admin level, but that's just my use case. The login system blocks most access, and public posts can be blocked with nginx authentication and tweaking the list of streams flagged public in the streaming service. [1] https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5836#issuecomment-352225419 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5836#issuecomme...

shoover 8y ago
Ah, they have a card in progress for a one-click Digital Ocean install [1]. Fantastic! This is an incredible open source project to watch, not your typical library or system service, but a real, polished app. Polls functionality is in master, just waiting for release. My kids are going to love this. [1] - https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/projects/8#card-18545229 https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/projects/8#card-185452...

imagetic 8y ago

Admittedly, I spent next to no real time investigating, but I did sign up and attempt to use it after some friends recommended it. There is no way any normal non-tech savvy person is going to go through that many hoops. I also couldn't figure out how to search other servers with any success. So unless I bring people I want to connect with into a server, I'm not grasping what good it's going to do as a social tool.

lukewrites 8y ago
+1 to this, searching & browsing across instances is a major pain point. To me, joining a Mastodon instance has felt way more like joining a forum than getting on a federated social network. I still like the instance I joined, though. Really nice people. Check out fosstodon.org if you're interested :)