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I'm not sure why Amazon thinks mobile video ads are a good idea at a time their marketplace has taken a serious hit in reputation. Most people are already wary

I'm not sure why Amazon thinks mobile video ads are a good idea at a time their marketplace has taken a serious hit in reputation. Most people are already wary of counterfeit goods on the marketplace. For many household goods, cheap offerings from fly-by-night operations clutter the search results. Review sections are chock-full of 5-star reviews reading "Great product!" or similarly generic messages. Many sellers have begun essentially paying their reviewers with free goods via the Vine program; and of course those 99.9% of those reviews are favorable. What used to feel like a premium experience now feels closer to a dollar store experience full of questionable products. Video ads on top of that will probably decrease my engagement; time will tell whether I'll continue to use Amazon for goods not available in my locale.

cheeze 8y ago
This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. I know that this will always get upvoted here, but IMO this comment provides no actual value wrt the article posted... I agree that the counterfeit problem is annoying, but I question how much HNers overstate the "serious hit in reputation" that Amazon has taken. Do you have any actual data to show that is true more than antecdotal HNer (not your average customer _at all_) comments?
- dymk 8y ago
  It's a common phenomena that happens in any online forum once they reach a certain size, or the topic becomes sufficiently controversial. As far as I can tell, it's basically "whataboutism", but even more indirect or abstract. "Amazon might have an ads service, but what about this particular criticism of their online marketplace (of which I only see on this news aggregator)?" "Oculus came out with this new hardware, but what about their ownership by Facebook?" "HotelsTonight is being bought by Airbnb, but what about Airbnb's behavior with local governments and their housing policy?"
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    I see what you're getting at, but I don't think "whataboutism" is the right term for that. Whataboutism would be like Facebook being criticized and someone responding, "Yes but Apple does it too!" What you're describing seems like it's an example of how everything eventually reverts to the mean. In this case, the "mean" point of discussion for any topic is the subtopic most people are familiar with and have a strong opinion about. Controversial topics are much more engaging, which means threads about them attract more comments. In turn that surfaces more attention to them, from which it follows that on any given topic you're likely to see people slowly shift the discussion to the most familiar subtopic, which will generally be the most engaging (and thereby likely controversial) one. It's a feedback cycle which sustains a meme (in the linguistic sense of the word). A majority zeitgeist is formed around an idea which is thoroughly self-propagating, because every time a topic with any degree of relevancy pops up, the discussion shifts to the meme.
    - what_ever 8y ago
      Agree - whataboutism is brought out against another negative thing to say - well everyone else is doing it, what about them?
- groby_b 8y ago
  Yes, there's plenty of evidence. But let's go to the horse's mount - Amazon itself, in its 10K, lists counterfeit goods as a business risk. https://qz.com/1542839/amazon-has-finally-admitted-to-investors-that-it-has-a-counterfeit-problem/ https://qz.com/1542839/amazon-has-finally-admitted-to-invest... Sure, they list it as a potential problem only, but I think we can at least agree it's worth considering, no?
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    Every open marketplace is always going to list counterfeit goods as a business risk, because it is. That's not the same thing as implying that their reputation is damaged. On the contrary, Amazon's horrible reputation for counterfeit goods seems to exist here and on reddit and that's pretty much it.
    - cheeze 8y ago
      Yup. This is my point. Granted, I'm mainly speaking from anecdotes myself here, but the only place I ever hear about how terrible Amazon is because of counterfeits is here or reddit (rarely reddit.) I live in Seattle so I hear a lot of criticism of Amazon, but this isn't one that surfaces often.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      What's the burden of proof for 'their reputation is damaged' here? A fully sponsored brand survey? A number of companies from Lush Soaps to Birkenstock are suing Amazon for infringement, the AAFA is requesting the US Trade Representative office to add Amazon markets to their list of known counterfeiters, and Amazon is finally acknowledging to investors they have a problem - but if you're just going to dismiss this as "business as usual" then it's not worth the discussion.
      - jhall1468 8y ago
        > Lush Soaps to Birkenstock are suing Amazon The Lush lawsuit was from 2014 and had absolutely nothing to do with counterfeit items, it was about allowing advertisers to use the Lush keyword in search listings for ads. Birkenstock is a good example of a case they will almost certainly lose. Courts have routinely ruled that marketplaces can't be held responsible for counterfeits that they don't control. > the AAFA is requesting the US Trade Representative office to add Amazon markets to their list of known counterfeiters That's a joke and should be treated as such. It's never going anywhere and is purely a PR campaign to get Amazon to more proactively work against counterfeit products. That's a fair goal, but hardly impacting Amazon's reputation among consumers. > and Amazon is finally acknowledging to investors they have a problem They've done so in their 10k in the past as well. > but if you're just going to dismiss this as "business as usual" then it's not worth the discussion. If the entirety of your evidence is silly requests and a mixture of lawsuits that either won't work (because they never have) or are entirely unrelated to the conversation, then yeah I'd say there's near-zero reputation damage. That said, Project Zero indicates that Amazon is paying attention so they absolutely see some risk. But nothing you've presented suggests that Amazon's reputation as far as consumers are concerned has been impacted as of yet. Their annual sales growth seems to confirm that.
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. I disagree. The comment questions why Amazon would do this now, since they're already facing consumer trust issues, and chasing advertising dollars will likely erode consumer trust further.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- _cs2017_ 8y ago
  HN and Reddit often seem to have very different views and concerns from the general population. Not sure if it's because of the echo chamber effect (reinforcing each other confidence by agreeing), or self-selection (people who share those views are more likely to be engaged on these forums), or something else.
  - eanzenberg 8y ago
    Absolutely echo chamber effect and being in a bubble.
    - what_ever 8y ago
      Also, a lot of bias and same rhetoric being repeated.
    - Waterluvian 8y ago
      The most echo chamber part of the parent statement is the use of "most people." Most people are not thinking about any of these things. What tires me and embarrasses me the most about the tech community and Silicon Valley community is how out of touch they are with most people.
      - rhacker 8y ago
        I've been around the block in this country, and not defending SV, but DAMN are people narrow minded and out of touch pretty much everywhere.
        quantum_magpie 8y ago
        You hear the out-of-touch people the most, because [usually] only the people with negative opinion (tiny minority; otherwise the business would go bankrupt) that are vocal about things. Neutral people don't care, people with positive opinion are happy about the experience and keep it to themselves.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. It has everything to do with the common person's idea of the natural progression of website quality. The appearance of ads is a part of that.
- rococode 8y ago
  I agree, and anecdotally, I buy all kinds of things frequently on Amazon - food, electronics, cosmetics, pricey PC parts, stationery, phone cases, etc. - with a purchase every week or two and have yet to encounter a counterfeit. And in the rare cases I do have problems (damaged product, shipment missing, etc), Amazon customer support has consistently been good. So personally speaking, their reputation in my eyes hasn't really changed. I suspect that many customers share my feelings, but like with every other service industry, the most outspoken customers are the unhappy ones.
  - katbyte 8y ago
    I have gotten a few duds, but as you say: Their customer support is second to none and i know if it happens i'll be able to return the item at no cost for a full refund. However I also am pretty careful about keeping an eye out for scams and counterfeit items as well, there are definitely some obvious ones out there and it does make me wary and purchase less then i would otherwise.
- what_ever 8y ago
  I don't think that comment is completely irrelevant. There are already issues of Amazon's own branded being pushed to top, then sponsored listings being pushed to to the top, on top of counterfeit stuff. Now there will be another thing to ignore. I rarely use Amazon because I don't have Prime but if I did, this will certainly annoy me because I am already paying Amazon for the subscription as well as when I buy things, let me get straight to the thing I want to and let it be what I want (read - not fake).
bogomipz 8y ago
>"Many sellers have begun essentially paying their reviewers with free goods via the Vine program; and of course those 99.9% of those reviews are favorable." I long suspected this. Can you say what is the Vine program and how does it work? I am familiar with this.
manigandham 8y ago
Because they are one of the biggest companies in the world and ads help them and their partners sell more via official channels. It's a very simple formula. Counterfeit products are a separate problem and they're making progress with things like Project Zero: http://fortune.com/2019/02/28/amazon-counterfeit-products/ http://fortune.com/2019/02/28/amazon-counterfeit-products/
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
austincheney 8y ago
Because Amazon spends a measurably significant amount of revenue on advertising. Recouping a fraction of that money is substantially more valuable than any hit to their reputation.
prepend 8y ago
I think it’s because Google overcharges and Amazon knows the most about buying habits and thinks it can clean up.
swlkr 8y ago
I cancelled prime this year, I received one too many fake products last year.

cheeze 8y ago

This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. I know that this will always get upvoted here, but IMO this comment provides no actual value wrt the article posted... I agree that the counterfeit problem is annoying, but I question how much HNers overstate the "serious hit in reputation" that Amazon has taken. Do you have any actual data to show that is true more than antecdotal HNer (not your average customer _at all_) comments?

dymk 8y ago
It's a common phenomena that happens in any online forum once they reach a certain size, or the topic becomes sufficiently controversial. As far as I can tell, it's basically "whataboutism", but even more indirect or abstract. "Amazon might have an ads service, but what about this particular criticism of their online marketplace (of which I only see on this news aggregator)?" "Oculus came out with this new hardware, but what about their ownership by Facebook?" "HotelsTonight is being bought by Airbnb, but what about Airbnb's behavior with local governments and their housing policy?"
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  I see what you're getting at, but I don't think "whataboutism" is the right term for that. Whataboutism would be like Facebook being criticized and someone responding, "Yes but Apple does it too!" What you're describing seems like it's an example of how everything eventually reverts to the mean. In this case, the "mean" point of discussion for any topic is the subtopic most people are familiar with and have a strong opinion about. Controversial topics are much more engaging, which means threads about them attract more comments. In turn that surfaces more attention to them, from which it follows that on any given topic you're likely to see people slowly shift the discussion to the most familiar subtopic, which will generally be the most engaging (and thereby likely controversial) one. It's a feedback cycle which sustains a meme (in the linguistic sense of the word). A majority zeitgeist is formed around an idea which is thoroughly self-propagating, because every time a topic with any degree of relevancy pops up, the discussion shifts to the meme.
  - what_ever 8y ago
    Agree - whataboutism is brought out against another negative thing to say - well everyone else is doing it, what about them?
groby_b 8y ago
Yes, there's plenty of evidence. But let's go to the horse's mount - Amazon itself, in its 10K, lists counterfeit goods as a business risk. https://qz.com/1542839/amazon-has-finally-admitted-to-investors-that-it-has-a-counterfeit-problem/ https://qz.com/1542839/amazon-has-finally-admitted-to-invest... Sure, they list it as a potential problem only, but I think we can at least agree it's worth considering, no?
- jhall1468 8y ago
  Every open marketplace is always going to list counterfeit goods as a business risk, because it is. That's not the same thing as implying that their reputation is damaged. On the contrary, Amazon's horrible reputation for counterfeit goods seems to exist here and on reddit and that's pretty much it.
  - cheeze 8y ago
    Yup. This is my point. Granted, I'm mainly speaking from anecdotes myself here, but the only place I ever hear about how terrible Amazon is because of counterfeits is here or reddit (rarely reddit.) I live in Seattle so I hear a lot of criticism of Amazon, but this isn't one that surfaces often.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    What's the burden of proof for 'their reputation is damaged' here? A fully sponsored brand survey? A number of companies from Lush Soaps to Birkenstock are suing Amazon for infringement, the AAFA is requesting the US Trade Representative office to add Amazon markets to their list of known counterfeiters, and Amazon is finally acknowledging to investors they have a problem - but if you're just going to dismiss this as "business as usual" then it's not worth the discussion.
    - jhall1468 8y ago
      > Lush Soaps to Birkenstock are suing Amazon The Lush lawsuit was from 2014 and had absolutely nothing to do with counterfeit items, it was about allowing advertisers to use the Lush keyword in search listings for ads. Birkenstock is a good example of a case they will almost certainly lose. Courts have routinely ruled that marketplaces can't be held responsible for counterfeits that they don't control. > the AAFA is requesting the US Trade Representative office to add Amazon markets to their list of known counterfeiters That's a joke and should be treated as such. It's never going anywhere and is purely a PR campaign to get Amazon to more proactively work against counterfeit products. That's a fair goal, but hardly impacting Amazon's reputation among consumers. > and Amazon is finally acknowledging to investors they have a problem They've done so in their 10k in the past as well. > but if you're just going to dismiss this as "business as usual" then it's not worth the discussion. If the entirety of your evidence is silly requests and a mixture of lawsuits that either won't work (because they never have) or are entirely unrelated to the conversation, then yeah I'd say there's near-zero reputation damage. That said, Project Zero indicates that Amazon is paying attention so they absolutely see some risk. But nothing you've presented suggests that Amazon's reputation as far as consumers are concerned has been impacted as of yet. Their annual sales growth seems to confirm that.
CharlesColeman 8y ago
> This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. I disagree. The comment questions why Amazon would do this now, since they're already facing consumer trust issues, and chasing advertising dollars will likely erode consumer trust further.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
_cs2017_ 8y ago
HN and Reddit often seem to have very different views and concerns from the general population. Not sure if it's because of the echo chamber effect (reinforcing each other confidence by agreeing), or self-selection (people who share those views are more likely to be engaged on these forums), or something else.
- eanzenberg 8y ago
  Absolutely echo chamber effect and being in a bubble.
  - what_ever 8y ago
    Also, a lot of bias and same rhetoric being repeated.
  - Waterluvian 8y ago
    The most echo chamber part of the parent statement is the use of "most people." Most people are not thinking about any of these things. What tires me and embarrasses me the most about the tech community and Silicon Valley community is how out of touch they are with most people.
    - rhacker 8y ago
      I've been around the block in this country, and not defending SV, but DAMN are people narrow minded and out of touch pretty much everywhere.
      - quantum_magpie 8y ago
        You hear the out-of-touch people the most, because [usually] only the people with negative opinion (tiny minority; otherwise the business would go bankrupt) that are vocal about things. Neutral people don't care, people with positive opinion are happy about the experience and keep it to themselves.
stcredzero 8y ago
This is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. It has everything to do with the common person's idea of the natural progression of website quality. The appearance of ads is a part of that.
rococode 8y ago
I agree, and anecdotally, I buy all kinds of things frequently on Amazon - food, electronics, cosmetics, pricey PC parts, stationery, phone cases, etc. - with a purchase every week or two and have yet to encounter a counterfeit. And in the rare cases I do have problems (damaged product, shipment missing, etc), Amazon customer support has consistently been good. So personally speaking, their reputation in my eyes hasn't really changed. I suspect that many customers share my feelings, but like with every other service industry, the most outspoken customers are the unhappy ones.
- katbyte 8y ago
  I have gotten a few duds, but as you say: Their customer support is second to none and i know if it happens i'll be able to return the item at no cost for a full refund. However I also am pretty careful about keeping an eye out for scams and counterfeit items as well, there are definitely some obvious ones out there and it does make me wary and purchase less then i would otherwise.
what_ever 8y ago
I don't think that comment is completely irrelevant. There are already issues of Amazon's own branded being pushed to top, then sponsored listings being pushed to to the top, on top of counterfeit stuff. Now there will be another thing to ignore. I rarely use Amazon because I don't have Prime but if I did, this will certainly annoy me because I am already paying Amazon for the subscription as well as when I buy things, let me get straight to the thing I want to and let it be what I want (read - not fake).

bogomipz 8y ago

>"Many sellers have begun essentially paying their reviewers with free goods via the Vine program; and of course those 99.9% of those reviews are favorable." I long suspected this. Can you say what is the Vine program and how does it work? I am familiar with this.

manigandham 8y ago

Because they are one of the biggest companies in the world and ads help them and their partners sell more via official channels. It's a very simple formula. Counterfeit products are a separate problem and they're making progress with things like Project Zero: http://fortune.com/2019/02/28/amazon-counterfeit-products/ http://fortune.com/2019/02/28/amazon-counterfeit-products/

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

austincheney 8y ago

Because Amazon spends a measurably significant amount of revenue on advertising. Recouping a fraction of that money is substantially more valuable than any hit to their reputation.

prepend 8y ago

I think it’s because Google overcharges and Amazon knows the most about buying habits and thinks it can clean up.

swlkr 8y ago

I cancelled prime this year, I received one too many fake products last year.