4 ms·

Presumably ticketed restaurants like Lazy Bear are inaccessible to the unbanked also. Should we ban those next?

dannycastonguay 8y ago
The deontological argument is that there is a rule requiring vendors to accept cash, whereas there isn't a rule limiting the max price they can charge. I, too, find it easier to apply consequentialism, but bureaucracies work well when they have clear rules.
tyingq 8y ago
Toll roads as well.
- moorhosj 8y ago
  Are there toll roads in the US that don't accept cash?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - gbear605 8y ago
    Many toll roads in the US are being switched to automated systems that either scan a device attached to your windshield or license plate, allowing you to either prepay into an account or pay afterward.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Are there toll roads in the US that don't accept cash? One example, FastTrack express lanes in the Bay area (unlike the lanes on bridges, there is no cash-accepting substitute.)
- wbronitsky 8y ago
  Even toll roads without people accepting payment there, can be paid for in cash afterwards, at least in California https://thetollroads.com/help/faq/386 https://thetollroads.com/help/faq/386
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Looks like one location in Irvine is the only place you can pay cash. So I guess technically yes, practically though? Oh, and it's open : M-F, 7:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.
    - ac29 8y ago
      Those specific toll roads are only in Orange County, so having one location in Irvine isn't a big deal. Its not a statewide network.
CodeCube 8y ago
If you can't buy tickets with cash ... sure, sounds good.
wbronitsky 8y ago
I'm sure Lazy Bear can come up with a coherent way to accept cash, as can all these other stores. Your argument is a bit lazy though, right? The point is that cash itself says you have to accept it for "all debts public and private" and as an equitable society we have an incentive to make sure that is true. Out of hand dismissals of a coherent argument do not help us learn more; they only serve to make you feel good about being smarter than some other people.
- codersarepeople 8y ago
  If you go into a store, they can reject you for any reason (unless it's due to being a member of a protected class). Cash must be accepted to settle debts, but if I refuse to serve you, there is no debt. It's legal for stores to say "we don't accept $100 bills" and it's legal to say "we don't accept cash". However, if you eat dinner, THEN pay, you have a debt, and cash must be accepted.
  - wbronitsky 8y ago
    Totally, and that is why I support a ban on cashless stores, to remedy this loophole
    - codersarepeople 8y ago
      Would you also support a ban on stores that don't accept $100 bills? What about stores that refuse to accept payment only in pennies? The issue is in those cases that $100 bills make them targets for robbery and therefore cause undue burden on those stores. In fact, the same could be said of cash in general over other forms of payment. From what I've heard, China's mostly cashless system is a dream for both consumers and stores.
      - wbronitsky 8y ago
        You make a lot of arguments here, most of which I won't touch (especially saying China is "a dream for both consumers and stores"). But to answer your question: no, we should not have 0 bounds on what is acceptable, and there should be some guardrails to make sure that the pedants in all of us don't take over, and that our economy doesn't end up running on pennies (not that they would, that argument is marginal at best). However, not accepting cash is a problem of a different magnitude than not accepting some annoying forms of cash. I support a ban on cashless stores, but, yes, like you pointed out, with some caveats on what they have to support and what they don't.
munchbunny 8y ago
Are you asking a policy question, or is this a rhetorical question and you're making a point that there are already cases where not taking cash is an accepted practice? I don't see a need to ban it because it's fairly unlikely that someone can both afford a Lazy Bear ticket and also be unbanked. But if you take the nuance out of this question and forced me to choose, then yes, I would say that Lazy Bear should be required to offer a cash-based way to buy tickets.
markdown 8y ago
Yes. Accept cash, or do business elsewhere.

The deontological argument is that there is a rule requiring vendors to accept cash, whereas there isn't a rule limiting the max price they can charge. I, too, find it easier to apply consequentialism, but bureaucracies work well when they have clear rules.

tyingq 8y ago

Toll roads as well.

moorhosj 8y ago
Are there toll roads in the US that don't accept cash?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- gbear605 8y ago
  Many toll roads in the US are being switched to automated systems that either scan a device attached to your windshield or license plate, allowing you to either prepay into an account or pay afterward.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Are there toll roads in the US that don't accept cash? One example, FastTrack express lanes in the Bay area (unlike the lanes on bridges, there is no cash-accepting substitute.)
wbronitsky 8y ago
Even toll roads without people accepting payment there, can be paid for in cash afterwards, at least in California https://thetollroads.com/help/faq/386 https://thetollroads.com/help/faq/386
- tyingq 8y ago
  Looks like one location in Irvine is the only place you can pay cash. So I guess technically yes, practically though? Oh, and it's open : M-F, 7:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.
  - ac29 8y ago
    Those specific toll roads are only in Orange County, so having one location in Irvine isn't a big deal. Its not a statewide network.

CodeCube 8y ago

If you can't buy tickets with cash ... sure, sounds good.

wbronitsky 8y ago

I'm sure Lazy Bear can come up with a coherent way to accept cash, as can all these other stores. Your argument is a bit lazy though, right? The point is that cash itself says you have to accept it for "all debts public and private" and as an equitable society we have an incentive to make sure that is true. Out of hand dismissals of a coherent argument do not help us learn more; they only serve to make you feel good about being smarter than some other people.

codersarepeople 8y ago
If you go into a store, they can reject you for any reason (unless it's due to being a member of a protected class). Cash must be accepted to settle debts, but if I refuse to serve you, there is no debt. It's legal for stores to say "we don't accept $100 bills" and it's legal to say "we don't accept cash". However, if you eat dinner, THEN pay, you have a debt, and cash must be accepted.
- wbronitsky 8y ago
  Totally, and that is why I support a ban on cashless stores, to remedy this loophole
  - codersarepeople 8y ago
    Would you also support a ban on stores that don't accept $100 bills? What about stores that refuse to accept payment only in pennies? The issue is in those cases that $100 bills make them targets for robbery and therefore cause undue burden on those stores. In fact, the same could be said of cash in general over other forms of payment. From what I've heard, China's mostly cashless system is a dream for both consumers and stores.
    - wbronitsky 8y ago
      You make a lot of arguments here, most of which I won't touch (especially saying China is "a dream for both consumers and stores"). But to answer your question: no, we should not have 0 bounds on what is acceptable, and there should be some guardrails to make sure that the pedants in all of us don't take over, and that our economy doesn't end up running on pennies (not that they would, that argument is marginal at best). However, not accepting cash is a problem of a different magnitude than not accepting some annoying forms of cash. I support a ban on cashless stores, but, yes, like you pointed out, with some caveats on what they have to support and what they don't.

munchbunny 8y ago

Are you asking a policy question, or is this a rhetorical question and you're making a point that there are already cases where not taking cash is an accepted practice? I don't see a need to ban it because it's fairly unlikely that someone can both afford a Lazy Bear ticket and also be unbanked. But if you take the nuance out of this question and forced me to choose, then yes, I would say that Lazy Bear should be required to offer a cash-based way to buy tickets.

markdown 8y ago

Yes. Accept cash, or do business elsewhere.