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Amazon to Launch Mobile Ads, in a Threat to Google and Facebook
- mc32 8y agoI wonder if in addition to mainly physical products and entertainment subscriptions, Amazon could serve up ads for any product outside their control. They already do “sponsored”. But what if they index just about anything people buy? Insurance, Cars, Dell, Dropbox, etc., and undercut the clutter (non commerce results in SERPs). Many people skip Google searches when looking to buy things and go first to Amazon; why not add commerce in general?
- judge2020 8y agoDoesn't Amazon already have mobile ads? Maybe this was just amazon-on-adsense but I remember often seeing Amazon items I've recently viewed show up in other apps.
- eclipxe 8y agoThis is ads in the sense of Amazon providing Ad display space for other advertisers in Amazon owned properties.
- nerfhammer 8y agoyea this feels click-baity I don't see how it threatens Google or Facebook.
- millstone 8y agoBezos famously says Amazon's "secret sauce" is "obsessive compulsive focus on the customer." Isn't this move at odds with that focus? Customers don't want to see ads.
- jasonvorhe 8y agoSo wasn't throwing Chromecasts out of the Amazon Store and showing rival products when searching for Chromecasts.
- chrischen 8y agoIn theory customers do want to see ads, if the ads are working.
- dannycastonguay 8y agoIn practice, ads are there because sponsors are ready to pay for something good that consumers have no desire to pay for. Thank you, advertisers, for paying for Gmail and all those good products.
- 908087 8y ago"Our products are so good that nobody is willing to pay for them" doesn't sound very convincing.
- dannycastonguay 8y agoMaybe you have something to teach me. Are you not convinced that Google Search, DDG, Gmail, Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat are all "good" products in the eye of many people? As far as I can tell, all of those products are paid for by sponsors.
- joshuamorton 8y agoOn the other hand "consumers choose our products even though there are other free alternatives" does.
- 908087 8y agoThese platforms have been coasting on network effects alone for years. The "I'd quit but I have no other way to stay in touch with (friends/family/whoever)." / "but all my (whoever) are on it" justifications you constantly see from people are evidence to support that.
- joshuamorton 8y agoYes, email and web-search, the peak of consumer-side vendor lock in. Indeed, networks effects may sometimes be relevant to some of these tools. But that's certainly not always true.
- djhworld 8y agoThe customer of Amazon Ads is the advertisers.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dpflan 8y agoAre suggested products in Amazon -- like the view of customers who bought X also bought Y -- equivalent to or considered ads in Amazon?
- thinkling 8y agoMy impression is that if someone paid for placement, Amazon will label the items as such. So in a detail page you'll see "Frequently bought together" (not paid placement), "Sponsored products related to this item" (paid), "Customers who bought this item also bought" (not paid). Whether or not you think it's an ad is up to you... they're all trying to get you to buy more. :-)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- okmokmz 8y ago>Amazon's "secret sauce" is "obsessive compulsive focus on the customer." I feel like this used to be true, but hasn't been the case for at least the past year
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoThe biggest example to me that Amazon no longer cares about the customer is their experience for non-Prime users. Random, regular items like Blu-ray discs or diapers will randomly get marked as "Prime Exclusive", and cannot be ordered from Amazon without a Prime subscription, even at a higher price. Prime Exclusive items are, mystifyingly, not even a better price, and usually the same or cheaper elsewhere. Amazon is literally giving you the choice to get Prime or shop elsewhere, and... I go shop elsewhere. Completely mystifying decision on Amazon's part. Amazon just seems to enjoy screwing with anyone who doesn't have Prime, and has done it for years. It's never gotten a lot of coverage because of the pervasiveness of Prime: Anyone reading this comment probably never knew this, because they already had Prime.
- okmokmz 8y agoI've had prime for years, and I think I'm going to let it lapse this year and try to stop using amazon altogether
- jimmy1 8y agoAs someone currently doing this: I miss nothing. Walmart offers free 2-day shipping on most goods I would typically order from Amazon, and often cheaper. Best Buy has whatever tech thing I want, I get it same-day, and price-matched at Amazon, and I know it isn't counterfeit. Most book publishers (my original reason for using Amazon) have long ditched the platform and directed me towards ordering direct from them which usually nets me reduced price/shipping. Apple music is better than Amazon Music. Audible is separate anyways, having Prime didn't help me out much there. Netflix is better than Amazon streaming, and so on. The biggest benefit so far? I am generally ordering less stuff overall. I felt like I had to order x amount of stuff to make my prime membership "worth it", but it was never "worth it". It just resulted in me spending more money with Amazon, even if I had better alternatives around me.
- tehlike 8y agoYou need to find out the scale of the numbers. Even if 5% does, and clicks on them, it is a crazy number.
- losteric 8y agoBezos' real customer is shareholders. The people buying on Amazon have been products for a long time now.
- atomical 8y ago“Your margin is my opportunity" is a better quote for this move.
- anth_anm 8y agoBezos says lots of things. Amazon is better at customer service than their competitors, usually. They still do stupid shit. See the joke that was AIV on Android for years.
- hanniabu 8y agoIt's all relative to who the customer is. In this case it's business and the focus is right in line with their desires.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> Bezos famously says Amazon's "secret sauce" is "obsessive compulsive focus on the customer." Isn't this move at odds with that focus? So is not dealing with commingling. Amazon's focus is on driving down costs, and finding every way to leverage existing position for additional revenue. The claim of customer focus is true only to the extent of finding and greasing every possible route between the customer’s wallet and Amazon's bottom line. Anything else is (as one should expect of any executive’s public statements) simply PR.
- ikeboy 8y agoCommingling helps consumers (they get products quicker) and has very little downside. Typically people who are saying it does don't realize that Amazon still tracks which seller sold any particular unit regardless of which order Amazon shipped it for. If A sells a unit and Amazon ships B's inventory to fulfill it faster, Amazon still knows to get A in trouble if there's an issue.
- putlake 8y agoIsn't that the point though? It was B's inventory that was fake so why should A get in trouble?
- ikeboy 8y agoSorry, was a typo. Can't edit now but the point is they can get the right person in trouble.
- bit_logic 8y agoThe problem with commingling is counterfeits. Counterfeits are often not easily detected by the customer without significant effort.
- ikeboy 8y agoThat's an issue with or without commingling.
- taurath 8y agoAmazons customers are their sellers and now companies selling ads.
- vishnugupta 8y ago> "obsessive compulsive focus on the customer." Internally at Amazon, the definition of customer depends on the team. For 3rd party seller team seller is a customer. And so for the advertisement team, advertisers are customer. When they say customer obsession this is what is meant. In times of conflict though (e.g., marketplace team and Single Detail Page team when it comes to amount of data to be loaded Vs page latency) the decision is usually made in favour of Customer, i.e., buyer.
- aylmao 8y ago> Bezos famously says Amazon's "secret sauce" is "obsessive compulsive focus on the customer." Isn't this move at odds with that focus? Depends who you mean by "customers". Customers will be advertisers, and you bet they'll obsess over making a great product for them.
- drilldrive 8y agoI wouldn't be too sure. There was a time where there were plenty of online competitors for purchasing such items, and what made Amazon stand out was user accessibility. Once he won that market, for sure he was just lucky with the timing to hit the billions.
- drusepth 8y agoThere's a weird duality in ads based on their quality. As a customer, I most certainly do want to see ads if they're for things I'm interested in. I don't want to see ads for things I don't care about, though. I'd say most ads nowadays aim to be in the former group, which makes them helpful. Whether they actually make it into that group is up to implementation, but the intent is to be something customers want to see.
- matthewaveryusa 8y agoBezos' secret sauce is being at the right place at the right time. Once you capture the market you can define what you think made you successful. This is just a finely curated marketing sound bite to 'ouuuhh' and 'ahhhhh' the public into thinking that amazon is 'good'
- jhall1468 8y agoYeah, it was all "luck" and certainly had nothing to do with execution. You can just make all that shit up later.
- matthewaveryusa 8y agowhy are you quoting luck? I didn't say it, but somehow you conjecture that bezos won the lottery. Absolutely false: he is the _right_ person to execute, among a pool of a lot of other people capable of executing at the same level as him. To have 5-10 years of running a business without competition (AWS) is almost unheard of. He wouldn't have been able to do it pre commoditization of virtualization technology. edit: Bah to a certain extent you're right, plenty of tech is before its time and me saying being at the right place at the right time is a hind-sight 20-20 sort of comment. What I'm trying to say is I think lots of people have the same vision. Some people have it too early, some have it too late, and some have it at the time where the stars align: customers get it, VC gets it, and your company gets and and has the ability to execute on it. long story short I hope we can agree that while the ability to execute is a requirement it simply isn't enough.
- jhall1468 8y ago"right place at right time" implies luck was the direct result of Amazon rather than any kind of underlying skill. I'm certainly not suggesting luck didn't play a role, but I'm happily suggesting that you're implication was that luck was the primary factor. I disagree.
- rchaud 8y agoNot just luck. Amazon started in '94, but they didn't have to charge sales taxes in most US states, giving them a regulatory loophole advantage that lasted well past 2010. Plus their survival in the early days also had to do with the millions in venture capital propping them up for a decade until they finally became profitable in 2004.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- golergka 8y ago> Customers don't want to see ads. This strange assumption keeps perpetuated at HN as if it was the only possible opinion - but it's far from it. Personally, most of the ads I see on the internet are next versions of my favourite products, their next versions and related offerings, and I generally enjoy them and seldom click through to actually purchase something. And from talking to a lot of non-tech people, I actually tend to think that there's a lot more of people with similar experience that are just very silent in the whole ad debate.
- mises 8y agoWho is the customer here? This means that now, businesses are customers as well.
- dralley 8y agoI'd love to see Google and Facebook get some competition, but why does it have to be Amazon :(
- ineedasername 8y agoI don't see how this is a threat to Google or Facebook. Amazon isn't encroaching in their ad spaces. They're just placing ads in their own site. (And they already do some of this) Regardless, I think it's a bad move. If there's one thing I'd dislike more than having to scroll though a few pages of miscategorized items, it's having to go through more ads to do it.
- taurath 8y agoThe data they collect on users is the threat to google or Facebook. That means they can have better targeting and start their own ad network. If commerce based data is better than search or “like” based data (which it should be) then they can offer a more cost effective platform. This is a direct shot across the bow.
- zjaffee 8y agoProduct advertising isn't necessarily better than search or social advertising, it's just different. It's unlikely that amazon will be competitive with FB on political advertising, advertising for events, local advertising, ect.
- ineedasername 8y agoBut what would their own ad network run on besides their own e-commerce ecosphere? It leaves google and facebook with their unique offerings, and simply adds a third. Unless you think advertising dollars would shift from google to amazon?
- justfor1comment 8y agoAmazon has the best data on user purchase history. They are already building the tech for displaying mobile ads and ML based targeting behind the scenes. The choice to show them only in the Amazon app is a business decision and not a technical limitation. One day some VP from the ads team will make a fancy presentation to Bezos on how Amazon could make a killing by supporting more mobile apps and then the business direction will change instantaneously. This day is the threat to existing ad platforms.
- jak92 8y agoI am using Amazon less and less these days, buying elsewhere if given a reasonable choice. I do not want my buying habits mined , bought and sold, etc. They are my property and not subject to the whimms of amazon or any other company. just let me make a purchase and let that be it. at least other retailers give you the option of using a 'loyalty' card if you want to be tracked.
- okmokmz 8y ago>I am using Amazon less and less these days Agreed, everything about amazon has been getting progressively worse. Prices, reviews, products, usability, shipping, etc.
- anth_anm 8y agoI signed up for motorcycle classes and they said to bring glasses or goggles. I hopped on Amazon and realized I don't trust any of the things they sell to not be fake/junk/something I don't want near my eyes. I still ended up buying some because I don't really have time to get to the store, but I spent money to try and get a more repubtable brand. Hopefully they aren't fake.
- jak92 8y agoYes, it is a chore to shop on Amazon.
- hombre_fatal 8y agoDoesn't seem very damning for Amazon that, despite your concerns, you still purchased from Amazon.
- anth_anm 8y agoSure, but I'm saying they are costing themselves customer trust.
- everdrive 8y ago
- tracker1 8y agoGoogle knows what I search for... Amazon knows what I spend my money on. I'd say that might be a competitive advantage. Of course judging by the suggestions I get after getting a gift for someone else, maybe not.
- rchaud 8y agoGoogle knows what you buy on Amazon too. That's why Amazon had to start using emails like "Your order of [X] and 3 more items have shipped". Previously, they'd list all ordered items in the email but because Google could grab that data via Gmail (for "relevant advertising purposes", of course), they changed their approach.
- CharlesColeman 8y ago> Previously, they'd list all ordered items in the email but because Google could grab that data via Gmail (for "relevant advertising purposes", of course), they changed their approach. So that's why they did that. I wish they had limited that change to gmail addresses. I host my own email, and I wish they hadn't made me usability collateral damage.
- rchaud 8y agoA lot of people use a legacy ISP or mac.com email addresses and just auto-forward to gmail, so a Gmail only filter wouldn't have worked comprehensively, so I guess they had to go scorched earth.
- 20years 8y ago"Amazon is requiring a $35,000 ad budget to run the spots at 5 cents per view to run the ads for 60 days" This pretty much excludes small to mid-sized sellers. They are obviously targeting bigger companies with bigger budgets. With that in mind, I don't see it as a competitor to Google/YouTube or Facebook YET. If they open it up to lower budget campaigns, I can absolutely see it making a dent in YouTube ads.
- justfor1comment 8y ago"Large business helps other large businesses to become larger businesses, to become larger business."
- systemspeed 8y agoI'm not sure why Amazon thinks mobile video ads are a good idea at a time their marketplace has taken a serious hit in reputation. Most people are already wary of counterfeit goods on the marketplace. For many household goods, cheap offerings from fly-by-night operations clutter the search results. Review sections are chock-full of 5-star reviews reading "Great product!" or similarly generic messages. Many sellers have begun essentially paying their reviewers with free goods via the Vine program; and of course those 99.9% of those reviews are favorable. What used to feel like a premium experience now feels closer to a dollar store experience full of questionable products. Video ads on top of that will probably decrease my engagement; time will tell whether I'll continue to use Amazon for goods not available in my locale.
- cheeze 8y agoThis is the top comment of literally every Amazon thread. This has nothing to do with ads. I know that this will always get upvoted here, but IMO this comment provides no actual value wrt the article posted... I agree that the counterfeit problem is annoying, but I question how much HNers overstate the "serious hit in reputation" that Amazon has taken. Do you have any actual data to show that is true more than antecdotal HNer (not your average customer _at all_) comments?
- dymk 8y agoIt's a common phenomena that happens in any online forum once they reach a certain size, or the topic becomes sufficiently controversial. As far as I can tell, it's basically "whataboutism", but even more indirect or abstract. "Amazon might have an ads service, but what about this particular criticism of their online marketplace (of which I only see on this news aggregator)?" "Oculus came out with this new hardware, but what about their ownership by Facebook?" "HotelsTonight is being bought by Airbnb, but what about Airbnb's behavior with local governments and their housing policy?"
- throwawaymath 8y agoI see what you're getting at, but I don't think "whataboutism" is the right term for that. Whataboutism would be like Facebook being criticized and someone responding, "Yes but Apple does it too!" What you're describing seems like it's an example of how everything eventually reverts to the mean. In this case, the "mean" point of discussion for any topic is the subtopic most people are familiar with and have a strong opinion about. Controversial topics are much more engaging, which means threads about them attract more comments. In turn that surfaces more attention to them, from which it follows that on any given topic you're likely to see people slowly shift the discussion to the most familiar subtopic, which will generally be the most engaging (and thereby likely controversial) one. It's a feedback cycle which sustains a meme (in the linguistic sense of the word). A majority zeitgeist is formed around an idea which is thoroughly self-propagating, because every time a topic with any degree of relevancy pops up, the discussion shifts to the meme.
- cm2012 8y agoAmazon ads are a HUGE deal. They already have about 20% of FB's total ad volume. That's nuts for a side product.
- nerfhammer 8y agoby impressions or by revenue? It wouldn't surprise me if ads on amazon monetize better, but it would surprise me if they had anything close to the impression volume
- cm2012 8y agoRevenue. Total spend on the platform.
- rchaud 8y agoNot surprising, since ads now cover maybe 25% of the search results screen. Buying on Amazon is a nightmare now with 10 identical-looking Chinese brands to sift through, and a review system that frequently shows reviews for a completely different model of the product in question.
- aszantu 8y agoDoes anyone else feel disgust towards the world we live in? Everywhere you look, you get adds thrown in your face. Facebook is marketing to your profile, not just paid adds but people with their business. You meet a new person in a café they tell you about their business and try to sell stuff... You dare to go online with your smartphone and there's a million apps updating and when you open them they throw more adds in your face. can I demand my attention back please?
- RhodesianHunter 8y agoHonestly? No. I suppose I've just developed filters that means I pretty much never notice any of them unless a comment like this draws my attention to it.
- keepper 8y agoWould you put your money where your opinion is? You can demand your attention back, but are you willing to pay for the content you consume? I say this in earnest. We had great content in newspapers and magazines... and the world decide that cheap ( with instance access ) was better. Same has happened to many industries. You shouldn't demand, without a willingness to, well, compensate.
- badsectoracula 8y ago> We had great content in newspapers and magazines... and the world decide that cheap ( with instance access ) was better. I do not remember a time that newspapers and magazines had no ads, despite being paid. If anything many of them were almost half ads, half content. I was reading magazines since the 90s though, i do not know if things were better before.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y agoMy memory agrees. Hell, I work with a gaming magazine preservation project and those things are 90%+ ads when you get down to it.
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- dvt 8y agoThe idea that Amazon will pose an actual threat to Google (audience breadth) or FB (audience granularity) is nuts. Just how I'm sure Apple also really felt it when Amazon released the Fire Phone.
- whoisjuan 8y agoExcept that's not how it works. Facebook, Google and Amazon have very similar audience outreach in the US. If you're company in US market with an online advertising budget of 100K, and you were spending that budget on Facebook and Google, you might also start considering Amazon. Of course it's a threat. Any company in this situation can shift part of their online advertising budget to Amazon, at the expense of ad dollars that were previously spent on Facebook or Google.
- dvt 8y agoSince reddit/Twitter/Snap wasn't a threat, I highly doubt Amazon will be. The fact that agencies might spend a few bucks here and there to "try out Amazon ads" is beside the point. As someone that has been working in ad tech for about 5 years now, I don't think you truly appreciate the reach and level of optimization FB & GOOG have.
- whoisjuan 8y agoI think you're underestimating how incredibly dominant can Amazon be. Amazon is not Reddit/Twitter/Snap. They literally can do bulldozer moves into industries. Their ad placements are also very valuable. They already have the purchase intent that lacks in any of the examples you mentioned.
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- mcrae 8y agoWhy is it nuts? Last year Amazon did $10B in ad sales. That was double the year before. Google did about $130B for the same time period. Doesn't seem nuts to me that Amazon can grow their share of the pie quickly. They are #3 globally now. For context, AWS did about $25B and everyone raves about how high the margins are there -- I bet the ad margins are better! https://adage.com/article/digital/amazon-makes-quick-work-ad-industry-10-billion-year/316468/ https://adage.com/article/digital/amazon-makes-quick-work-ad...
- fukbezos 8y agoCancelled Amazon two years ago and haven't looked back. Saved a ton of money shopping on eBay believe it or not
- haoc 8y agoI bet once Amazon is more serious about Ads business, it will be uglier than others.
- kakaoscott 8y agoI was waiting for this!
- justindocanto 8y agoI'm guessing it would be cheaper and/or more profitable to run their own ad network than it would be to pay for running ads. Think about how they've turned expenses into profit in almost every other aspect of their business. - Shipping their books? Ship their own + others and make a profit - Hosting their website? Host their own + others and make a profit - Advertising their products? Advertise their own + others and make a profit.
- h3ckr 8y agoLol, so they show you ads to buy stuff on an app you literally open to buy stuff? This is a joke.
- known 8y agoI've never seen Cisco, Intel and Microsoft competing with each other;