6 ms·

Is a "military-style" gun kind of like a "sports-style" car? Snark aside, this is some pretty weak reporting. Was their parliament or whatever involved at all?

Is a "military-style" gun kind of like a "sports-style" car? Snark aside, this is some pretty weak reporting. Was their parliament or whatever involved at all? The article makes it sound like their prime minister can just arbitrarily ban guns, creating crimes, but I doubt that's really the case. Also the term "buyback" is a really bad term, since it usually implies a voluntary nature. This is really a "forced buyback" or confiscation.

madeofpalk 8y ago
'buyback' seems to be the commonly accepted term - Australia had one in 1996 after a mass shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#Australia
ceejayoz 8y ago
Per https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch-gun-ban-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch...: > The gun reform proposal will be introduced to Parliament in the first week of April. For it to come into effect, lawmakers need to vote on amending the existing legislation, the Arms Act 1983. > In the interim, New Zealand Governor General Patsy Reddy has signed an order to reclassify some semi-automatic weapons as "military-style". > As a result, many people who legally owned certain firearms will no longer be able to possess them on their existing license conditions. So, a bit of both. The Government can make some immediate changes; others require Parliament's involvement in the near future. (Presumably there's an agreement already largely worked out there.)
dev_dull 8y ago
That’s the same type of reporting I’ve seen everywhere. “New Zealand bans guns” — can a single PM even do that? Is there any debate in their parliament regarding the move? Do citizens have the same constitutional protections there as they do here w.r.t. gun ownership? It’s almost like the headlines are written in such a way as to say “See? It’s just that easy!”
- pjc50 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_New_Zealand : apparently NZ has a UK-style uncodified constitution. I think the only country that defines weapon ownership as a right is the US?
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Off the top of my head, Mexico, Haiti, and Guatemala all have a "Right to Bear Arms" in some form. It's widely ignored in Mexico, though. I also know that there are several countries where firearms are widely available to private citizens, both in their homes and in public, such as the Czech Republic.
- deogeo 8y ago
  Even as a layperson, I find the media's (pretty much all media outside of legal blogs) reporting on almost anything concerning the law to be painfully lacking in detail or explanation.
- amaccuish 8y ago
  I think you underestimate how popular the move is. > Do citizens have the same constitutional protections there as they do here w.r.t. gun ownership? I don't believe we ever needed or wanted such protection.
pjc50 8y ago
Background: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/explainer-how-are-new-zealands-gun-laws-changing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/explainer-how-... It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but I think they already have a drugs-like classification system for firearms, with delegated authority to decide what goes in what category, so they're just moving all semi-auto to the "banned" category. By the sound of it, it really is that easy. UK/Australia comparative review: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/firearms-act-twenty-years-on-has-it-made-a-difference-dunblane-port-arthur-a8110911.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/firearms-act-t...
- commandlinefan 8y ago
  Isn't semi-auto basically every gun except revolvers and bolt-action rifles? I thought "semi-auto" just meant you could pull the trigger, get a bullet, and then pull the trigger again for another bullet (as opposed to full auto where you keep getting bullets until you let go of the trigger or run out of bullets).
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Click the link. It has a section titled "What semi-automatic firearms will not be affected by the ban?"
    - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
      > Semi-automatic .22 calibre rimfire firearms with a magazine which holds no more than 10 rounds Oh, so the same weapon used in Virginia Tech, one of the worst school shootings in US history.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        I believe NZ (as some US states do) regulates pistols differently than rifles/shotguns. The VT shooter also had at least some fifteen round magazines. Ultimately, the policy goal is gonna be damage reduction. NZ likely understands that perfect protection isn't possible.
leothekim 8y ago
As an alternative to calling it "pretty weak reporting", perhaps viewing it as a list of brief summaries of what's happening in NZ related to the Christchurch shootings might make this web page more digestible.
namdnay 8y ago
There's a detailed classificaiton in NZ: https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/the-arms-code-2013.pdf https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/... Military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms Are firearms that require an endorsement on your firearms licence (E endorsement) and are subject to special security conditions. Only an E endorsed person may have or use a MSSA and it is an offence for anyone without this endorsement to fire one, even under supervision. Only persons 18 years of age or older can have an endorsement for one of these firearms. A permit to procure the MSSA must be obtained from an Arms Officer before taking possession of it. MSSAs require greater storage security than for standard sporting firearms. A MSSA is a self-loading rifle or shotgun with one or more of the following features: • Folding or telescopic butt • Magazine that holds, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 15 cartridges for .22 rimfire • Magazine that holds more than 7 cartridges, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 10 cartridges for other than a .22 rimfire • Bayonet lug • Pistol grip as defined by regulation • Flash suppresser You need a permit from the Police to obtain one of these firearms.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Well, as it's clearly a link to last night's live feed of the story as it was breaking, and they link in the very top entry to a full article, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect superb long form journalism in such a case. Parliament needs to agree the compensation/buyback, and presumably any wider reaching changes to firearm licencing. All that's been done to start is recategorising some weapons to need the E licence so they are no longer legal to hold, even for those who already have them on an A licence. I'm sure there's a couple more nits you can find to pick. :p

madeofpalk 8y ago

'buyback' seems to be the commonly accepted term - Australia had one in 1996 after a mass shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#Australia

ceejayoz 8y ago

Per https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch-gun-ban-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/asia/new-zealand-christchurch...: > The gun reform proposal will be introduced to Parliament in the first week of April. For it to come into effect, lawmakers need to vote on amending the existing legislation, the Arms Act 1983. > In the interim, New Zealand Governor General Patsy Reddy has signed an order to reclassify some semi-automatic weapons as "military-style". > As a result, many people who legally owned certain firearms will no longer be able to possess them on their existing license conditions. So, a bit of both. The Government can make some immediate changes; others require Parliament's involvement in the near future. (Presumably there's an agreement already largely worked out there.)

dev_dull 8y ago

That’s the same type of reporting I’ve seen everywhere. “New Zealand bans guns” — can a single PM even do that? Is there any debate in their parliament regarding the move? Do citizens have the same constitutional protections there as they do here w.r.t. gun ownership? It’s almost like the headlines are written in such a way as to say “See? It’s just that easy!”

pjc50 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_New_Zealand : apparently NZ has a UK-style uncodified constitution. I think the only country that defines weapon ownership as a right is the US?
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  Off the top of my head, Mexico, Haiti, and Guatemala all have a "Right to Bear Arms" in some form. It's widely ignored in Mexico, though. I also know that there are several countries where firearms are widely available to private citizens, both in their homes and in public, such as the Czech Republic.
deogeo 8y ago
Even as a layperson, I find the media's (pretty much all media outside of legal blogs) reporting on almost anything concerning the law to be painfully lacking in detail or explanation.
amaccuish 8y ago
I think you underestimate how popular the move is. > Do citizens have the same constitutional protections there as they do here w.r.t. gun ownership? I don't believe we ever needed or wanted such protection.

pjc50 8y ago

Background: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/explainer-how-are-new-zealands-gun-laws-changing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/explainer-how-... It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but I think they already have a drugs-like classification system for firearms, with delegated authority to decide what goes in what category, so they're just moving all semi-auto to the "banned" category. By the sound of it, it really is that easy. UK/Australia comparative review: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/firearms-act-twenty-years-on-has-it-made-a-difference-dunblane-port-arthur-a8110911.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/firearms-act-t...

commandlinefan 8y ago
Isn't semi-auto basically every gun except revolvers and bolt-action rifles? I thought "semi-auto" just meant you could pull the trigger, get a bullet, and then pull the trigger again for another bullet (as opposed to full auto where you keep getting bullets until you let go of the trigger or run out of bullets).
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Click the link. It has a section titled "What semi-automatic firearms will not be affected by the ban?"
  - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
    > Semi-automatic .22 calibre rimfire firearms with a magazine which holds no more than 10 rounds Oh, so the same weapon used in Virginia Tech, one of the worst school shootings in US history.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      I believe NZ (as some US states do) regulates pistols differently than rifles/shotguns. The VT shooter also had at least some fifteen round magazines. Ultimately, the policy goal is gonna be damage reduction. NZ likely understands that perfect protection isn't possible.

leothekim 8y ago

As an alternative to calling it "pretty weak reporting", perhaps viewing it as a list of brief summaries of what's happening in NZ related to the Christchurch shootings might make this web page more digestible.

namdnay 8y ago

There's a detailed classificaiton in NZ: https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/the-arms-code-2013.pdf https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/... Military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms Are firearms that require an endorsement on your firearms licence (E endorsement) and are subject to special security conditions. Only an E endorsed person may have or use a MSSA and it is an offence for anyone without this endorsement to fire one, even under supervision. Only persons 18 years of age or older can have an endorsement for one of these firearms. A permit to procure the MSSA must be obtained from an Arms Officer before taking possession of it. MSSAs require greater storage security than for standard sporting firearms. A MSSA is a self-loading rifle or shotgun with one or more of the following features: • Folding or telescopic butt • Magazine that holds, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 15 cartridges for .22 rimfire • Magazine that holds more than 7 cartridges, or is detachable and has the appearance of holding more than 10 cartridges for other than a .22 rimfire • Bayonet lug • Pistol grip as defined by regulation • Flash suppresser You need a permit from the Police to obtain one of these firearms.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

Well, as it's clearly a link to last night's live feed of the story as it was breaking, and they link in the very top entry to a full article, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect superb long form journalism in such a case. Parliament needs to agree the compensation/buyback, and presumably any wider reaching changes to firearm licencing. All that's been done to start is recategorising some weapons to need the E licence so they are no longer legal to hold, even for those who already have them on an A licence. I'm sure there's a couple more nits you can find to pick. :p