5 ms·

An ant farting in a hurricane. It provides enough power to run he state for 6 minutes or so [0] [1]. Useful for peak lopping, but if batteries would be used to

by antt 8y ago

An ant farting in a hurricane. It provides enough power to run he state for 6 minutes or so [0] [1]. Useful for peak lopping, but if batteries would be used to store renewables the bills would be about 20 times higher than they are now and Australia already has some of the most expensive power in the first world. South Australia is the most unhealthy energy market in the developed world, and several developing countries would be embarrassed by it. [0] https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-... current demand is 1300 MWh [1] http://theconversation.com/yes-sas-battery-is-a-massive-battery-but-it-can-do-much-more-besides-88480 http://theconversation.com/yes-sas-battery-is-a-massive-batt... 130 MWh of storage

BLKNSLVR 8y ago
An ant farting in a hurricane. and then It provides enough power to run he state for 6 minutes or so Powering an entire state for 6 minutes is massive. That's not what it's designed for, however. From what I've read it's designed to be a 'smoother' in times when the power system is under duress. South Australia is the most unhealthy energy market in the developed world I think you mean all of Australia. The market is severely gamed by primarily the gas generators at times when members of the aging coal fleet trip during either the night or when there's little wind, and so gas is left as the saviour. There have been times that gas generators have intentionally left turbines switched off so that the electricity from the operating turbines is of more value, as well as ignoring advice of the Market Operator to have generators 'ready to fire up' due to predicted dips in generation from the rest of the market. The current government believe in 'the free market', which would ideologically allow gaming of the system by the few participants who can jump in at times of need. However, this is what's a significant part of the cause of power prices in Australia being some of the highest in the world, and thus resulting in some people not being able to afford their bills. Imagine, in 2019, having to go back to candles? What an age we live in. A government at the helm when people were having to go back to reading stories by candle-light might have some multi-generational difficulty repairing their reputation. So they've been feebly attempting to bring the generators to heel. With little success. (There's also a lot of validity in the arguments about poor building regulation resulting in poorly- and un-insulated homes where electricity is used to fill comfort void whether for heating or cooling or both. New housing estates in Australia are a series of snug-fit cardboard boxes with pitched roofs)
- perilunar 8y ago
  > The current government believe in 'the free market' Good that you put that in quotes, because of course they don't really. They are crony capitalists at best. They killed a decent free-market approach to climate change (Emissions Trading Scheme) in favour of more subsidies (Renewable Energy Target). > New housing estates in Australia are a series of snug-fit cardboard boxes with pitched roofs) It breaks my heart when i drive past them. Ugly boxes with no attempt to match the environment. They fill up the whole block almost, leaving hardly any space for a garden. No verandahs, tiny eaves, small windows, hardly any trees. Horrible things.
  - taneq 8y ago
    > They fill up the whole block almost, leaving hardly any space for a garden. You're welcome to live in a tiny house on an otherwise empty block if you prefer. Me, I like to have room inside my house where it's nice and air conditioned. Or are you saying people should just be rich and be able to afford nice big houses on even bigger blocks of land (but still within a reasonable commute time of the city)?
    - BLKNSLVR 8y ago
      It sounds as if you're intentionally misrepresenting the argument the parent is making. The problem is poor regulatory standards, which is a leadership problem.
lewi 8y ago
> An ant farting in a hurricane. Thats a touch disingenuous. It was never meant to power the whole of South Australia. It was specifically built to mitigate the peak power price gouging [0] that had been happening the for prior 10 years. The 6 minutes it can run for during each cycle saves millions of dollars a year. Specifically 40mil in the first year. The cost of the unit was 66 Mil [1], so thats an insane break even time for grid infrastructure. [0]: https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-powerless-to-stop-s-a-price-gouging-14476/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-powerless-to-s... [1]: https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-battery-installed-in-south-australia-saved-the-region-40-million-in-its-first-year https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-battery-installed-i...
Jedd 8y ago
> .. and Australia already has some of the most expensive power in the first world. Do you have some witty explanation for this that doesn't involve misrepresenting the Tesla battery capability?

by antt 8y ago

BLKNSLVR 8y ago

An ant farting in a hurricane. and then It provides enough power to run he state for 6 minutes or so Powering an entire state for 6 minutes is massive. That's not what it's designed for, however. From what I've read it's designed to be a 'smoother' in times when the power system is under duress. South Australia is the most unhealthy energy market in the developed world I think you mean all of Australia. The market is severely gamed by primarily the gas generators at times when members of the aging coal fleet trip during either the night or when there's little wind, and so gas is left as the saviour. There have been times that gas generators have intentionally left turbines switched off so that the electricity from the operating turbines is of more value, as well as ignoring advice of the Market Operator to have generators 'ready to fire up' due to predicted dips in generation from the rest of the market. The current government believe in 'the free market', which would ideologically allow gaming of the system by the few participants who can jump in at times of need. However, this is what's a significant part of the cause of power prices in Australia being some of the highest in the world, and thus resulting in some people not being able to afford their bills. Imagine, in 2019, having to go back to candles? What an age we live in. A government at the helm when people were having to go back to reading stories by candle-light might have some multi-generational difficulty repairing their reputation. So they've been feebly attempting to bring the generators to heel. With little success. (There's also a lot of validity in the arguments about poor building regulation resulting in poorly- and un-insulated homes where electricity is used to fill comfort void whether for heating or cooling or both. New housing estates in Australia are a series of snug-fit cardboard boxes with pitched roofs)

perilunar 8y ago
> The current government believe in 'the free market' Good that you put that in quotes, because of course they don't really. They are crony capitalists at best. They killed a decent free-market approach to climate change (Emissions Trading Scheme) in favour of more subsidies (Renewable Energy Target). > New housing estates in Australia are a series of snug-fit cardboard boxes with pitched roofs) It breaks my heart when i drive past them. Ugly boxes with no attempt to match the environment. They fill up the whole block almost, leaving hardly any space for a garden. No verandahs, tiny eaves, small windows, hardly any trees. Horrible things.
- taneq 8y ago
  > They fill up the whole block almost, leaving hardly any space for a garden. You're welcome to live in a tiny house on an otherwise empty block if you prefer. Me, I like to have room inside my house where it's nice and air conditioned. Or are you saying people should just be rich and be able to afford nice big houses on even bigger blocks of land (but still within a reasonable commute time of the city)?
  - BLKNSLVR 8y ago
    It sounds as if you're intentionally misrepresenting the argument the parent is making. The problem is poor regulatory standards, which is a leadership problem.

lewi 8y ago

> An ant farting in a hurricane. Thats a touch disingenuous. It was never meant to power the whole of South Australia. It was specifically built to mitigate the peak power price gouging [0] that had been happening the for prior 10 years. The 6 minutes it can run for during each cycle saves millions of dollars a year. Specifically 40mil in the first year. The cost of the unit was 66 Mil [1], so thats an insane break even time for grid infrastructure. [0]: https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-powerless-to-stop-s-a-price-gouging-14476/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-powerless-to-s... [1]: https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-battery-installed-in-south-australia-saved-the-region-40-million-in-its-first-year https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-battery-installed-i...

Jedd 8y ago

> .. and Australia already has some of the most expensive power in the first world. Do you have some witty explanation for this that doesn't involve misrepresenting the Tesla battery capability?