5 ms·

A Bully Finds a Pulpit on the Web

114 points by doosra 16y ago

credo 16y ago
Interesting story on how search engine "flaws" (or limitations) reward bullying. From the story, it seems like sites like GetSatisfaction, ComplaintsBoard etc. don't use nofollow on links in user-generated content. 'nofollow' should mitigate the SEO impact and I'm surprised that the sites aren't doing this.
- Matt_Cutts 16y ago
  Agreed. That's an easy change that those websites should consider adding.
  - inerte 16y ago
    nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt. You can't trust people saying "these are not bad guys". Anyway, shouldn't getsatisfaction reward good customer service? You're just saying it's their problem to filter what's bad, for their your's users.
    - Matt_Cutts 16y ago
      "nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt." Note that rel=nofollow is just a mechanism to indicate to search engines "Please don't give this link weight in computing reputation or search results." If you're talking about a website that is doing shady things, that's a perfect time to use the rel=nofollow attribute if you link to that website.
      - gregpilling 16y ago
        no why is there no rel=badsite tag to indicate that you dislike a page/website?
  - brown9-2 16y ago
    Has anyone tried to contact these sites to let them know about nofollow? Perhaps they are just ignorant of the technology, since it's not their core competency.
- thefool 16y ago
  Although, if google had an algorithm to account for the quality of reviews, not having a no follow, and having the ranking be a function of total number of reviews, and average feedback score, wouldn't be bad either.
jeremyjarvis 16y ago
The reporter doesn't seem to understand that Google search is a search engine not some sort of recommendation engine - the results should only be influenced by relevance imv.
- asnyder 16y ago
  I'm sure the average internet user might not understand the difference either and rely on a site's Google ranking to reflect the credibility and reliability of a website.
  - chunkbot 16y ago
    But you're both wrong. In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more relevant than a scam site. It's Google that has to change, not the user.
    - jeremyjarvis 16y ago
      >In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more relevant than a scam site. No it's not. That search term is very open and does not indicate at all that the searcher is looking for reputable sites. A search for "good designer sunglasses store" then maybe. I think you're mixing up the job of a search engine and a review site.
      - asnyder 16y ago
        Google appears to disagree with you, as their recent modifications to address this issue have shown.
salemh 16y ago
Amusing: "Which gets to the real impediment to capitalism, Borker-style, and the reason it is unlikely to catch on: it is physically exhausting. Mr. Borker typically works from about 10 a.m. until 5 the next morning, spending much of that time feuding with unhappy customers. He describes this grueling regimen of confrontation with a heaviness that is enough to make you want to give him a hug. “I’m sure this is taking a toll on my health,” he complains. “I probably won’t live as long as you.”"
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  The biggest mystery to me is how he can threaten people with violence, repeatedly and in a documented fashion, and not be locked up. The system has failed here.
dabent 16y ago
That guy's like the opposite of Zappos' Tony Hsieh and his odds of a big exit for his company (or any long term profit after lawsuits, etc.) are also the opposite.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
donohoe 16y ago
Where's Anonoymous when you need them?
nhebb 16y ago
San Francisco meets Brooklyn: "[Get Satisfaction] wrote to me, ‘We’d like to talk to you; we should take a proactive approach.’" Mr. Borker sneers and rolls his eyes. "I sent him a photograph of this," he says, raising his middle finger.
trustfundbaby 16y ago
I read that with my jaw on the floor ... the whole time. I really cannot bring myself to believe that this guy operates with such impunity. That being said, people really really need to learn to check out a merchant online before buying from them.
scottyw 16y ago
I only see one link per company on Get Satisfaction. You don't get more links per review.
aberkowitz 16y ago
I predict however he finds his business to succeed currently will be utterly destroyed with this article. You cannot possibly have your name published in association with fraud accusations and not expect knocks from government agencies.
plnewman 16y ago
The amount of work he put in to the 'transaction' described in the article hardly seems worth it.
- Estragon 16y ago
  Only from a purely financial perspective. He clearly gets off on it.
jpr 16y ago
Why is everyone, including NYT and HN doing exactly what that scumbag wants? This disgusts me.
- spacemanaki 16y ago
  While I agree that it's clearly what "that scumbag wants" I think this kind of article could be a good thing printed in something like the NYT. It brings more awareness that crooks like this are out there and you need to be careful shopping online. I'm about to send it to my mom, who could easily get caught up in something crazy like this since her internet-sketchy-ness filter is not exactly as sharp as most HNers.
emeltzer 16y ago
"...He handles those transactions like a Boy Scout because Amazon doesn't mess around, he says - the company just kicks you off its site if you infuriate customers." more evidence in the 'amazon knows what they are doing' file.
- araneae 16y ago
  This is also a ringing endorsement to buy things from Amazon over eBay or independent sellers.
  - andrewl 16y ago
    The fourth comment on the NY Times article says that Amazon was not helpful in a similar situation. But it's only one comment. Does anybody here have experience with Amazon's response to abusive merchants? Here's the comment: I had a similar appearance once when I bought something from an Amazon seller. After receiving a defective product and returning it, the seller threatened to kill me. What was most shocking was the indifference of Amazon, a company that I admire and respect along with its founder and CEO Jeff Bezos. I wrote repeatedly to the company, even finding email addresses of executives. Indeed, as with the company cited in this story, there were many other complaints on the web to be found about this seller and his threats. Amazon's response was a virtual shrug.
davnola 16y ago
I was Eric Schmidt, I would be delighted by this article because it's evidence that people no longer treat Google as a search engine that finds relevant webpages, but as an oracle that gives you the best advice and recommendations. And that is obviously more monetizable. Unfortunately for us, the consumers, it can't actually deliver that service yet, anymore than city authorities can ensure the best retailers rent the best locations.
superk 16y ago
I think the funniest part is how he specializes in eyeglass wear. I don't know if there's anything to the sterotype of eyeglass wearers being more geeky or introverted (I wear glasses but I'm a small test group) - but it goes along perfectly with his role as the bully.
waterlesscloud 16y ago
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Google needs to be laser focused on improving search result quality. Not preview pages, not restaurant ratings, not autonomous cars. Search result quality.

114 points by doosra 16y ago

credo 16y ago

Interesting story on how search engine "flaws" (or limitations) reward bullying. From the story, it seems like sites like GetSatisfaction, ComplaintsBoard etc. don't use nofollow on links in user-generated content. 'nofollow' should mitigate the SEO impact and I'm surprised that the sites aren't doing this.

Matt_Cutts 16y ago
Agreed. That's an easy change that those websites should consider adding.
- inerte 16y ago
  nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt. You can't trust people saying "these are not bad guys". Anyway, shouldn't getsatisfaction reward good customer service? You're just saying it's their problem to filter what's bad, for their your's users.
  - Matt_Cutts 16y ago
    "nofollow is a bad idea and I wish Google stopped using, Matt." Note that rel=nofollow is just a mechanism to indicate to search engines "Please don't give this link weight in computing reputation or search results." If you're talking about a website that is doing shady things, that's a perfect time to use the rel=nofollow attribute if you link to that website.
    - gregpilling 16y ago
      no why is there no rel=badsite tag to indicate that you dislike a page/website?
- brown9-2 16y ago
  Has anyone tried to contact these sites to let them know about nofollow? Perhaps they are just ignorant of the technology, since it's not their core competency.
thefool 16y ago
Although, if google had an algorithm to account for the quality of reviews, not having a no follow, and having the ranking be a function of total number of reviews, and average feedback score, wouldn't be bad either.

jeremyjarvis 16y ago

The reporter doesn't seem to understand that Google search is a search engine not some sort of recommendation engine - the results should only be influenced by relevance imv.

asnyder 16y ago
I'm sure the average internet user might not understand the difference either and rely on a site's Google ranking to reflect the credibility and reliability of a website.
- chunkbot 16y ago
  But you're both wrong. In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more relevant than a scam site. It's Google that has to change, not the user.
  - jeremyjarvis 16y ago
    >In a search for "designer sunglasses", a reputable site is more relevant than a scam site. No it's not. That search term is very open and does not indicate at all that the searcher is looking for reputable sites. A search for "good designer sunglasses store" then maybe. I think you're mixing up the job of a search engine and a review site.
    - asnyder 16y ago
      Google appears to disagree with you, as their recent modifications to address this issue have shown.

salemh 16y ago

Amusing: "Which gets to the real impediment to capitalism, Borker-style, and the reason it is unlikely to catch on: it is physically exhausting. Mr. Borker typically works from about 10 a.m. until 5 the next morning, spending much of that time feuding with unhappy customers. He describes this grueling regimen of confrontation with a heaviness that is enough to make you want to give him a hug. “I’m sure this is taking a toll on my health,” he complains. “I probably won’t live as long as you.”"

waterlesscloud 16y ago
The biggest mystery to me is how he can threaten people with violence, repeatedly and in a documented fashion, and not be locked up. The system has failed here.

dabent 16y ago

That guy's like the opposite of Zappos' Tony Hsieh and his odds of a big exit for his company (or any long term profit after lawsuits, etc.) are also the opposite.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

donohoe 16y ago

Where's Anonoymous when you need them?

nhebb 16y ago

San Francisco meets Brooklyn: "[Get Satisfaction] wrote to me, ‘We’d like to talk to you; we should take a proactive approach.’" Mr. Borker sneers and rolls his eyes. "I sent him a photograph of this," he says, raising his middle finger.

trustfundbaby 16y ago

I read that with my jaw on the floor ... the whole time. I really cannot bring myself to believe that this guy operates with such impunity. That being said, people really really need to learn to check out a merchant online before buying from them.

scottyw 16y ago

I only see one link per company on Get Satisfaction. You don't get more links per review.

aberkowitz 16y ago

I predict however he finds his business to succeed currently will be utterly destroyed with this article. You cannot possibly have your name published in association with fraud accusations and not expect knocks from government agencies.

plnewman 16y ago

The amount of work he put in to the 'transaction' described in the article hardly seems worth it.

Estragon 16y ago
Only from a purely financial perspective. He clearly gets off on it.

jpr 16y ago

Why is everyone, including NYT and HN doing exactly what that scumbag wants? This disgusts me.

spacemanaki 16y ago
While I agree that it's clearly what "that scumbag wants" I think this kind of article could be a good thing printed in something like the NYT. It brings more awareness that crooks like this are out there and you need to be careful shopping online. I'm about to send it to my mom, who could easily get caught up in something crazy like this since her internet-sketchy-ness filter is not exactly as sharp as most HNers.

emeltzer 16y ago

"...He handles those transactions like a Boy Scout because Amazon doesn't mess around, he says - the company just kicks you off its site if you infuriate customers." more evidence in the 'amazon knows what they are doing' file.

araneae 16y ago
This is also a ringing endorsement to buy things from Amazon over eBay or independent sellers.
- andrewl 16y ago
  The fourth comment on the NY Times article says that Amazon was not helpful in a similar situation. But it's only one comment. Does anybody here have experience with Amazon's response to abusive merchants? Here's the comment: I had a similar appearance once when I bought something from an Amazon seller. After receiving a defective product and returning it, the seller threatened to kill me. What was most shocking was the indifference of Amazon, a company that I admire and respect along with its founder and CEO Jeff Bezos. I wrote repeatedly to the company, even finding email addresses of executives. Indeed, as with the company cited in this story, there were many other complaints on the web to be found about this seller and his threats. Amazon's response was a virtual shrug.

davnola 16y ago

I was Eric Schmidt, I would be delighted by this article because it's evidence that people no longer treat Google as a search engine that finds relevant webpages, but as an oracle that gives you the best advice and recommendations. And that is obviously more monetizable. Unfortunately for us, the consumers, it can't actually deliver that service yet, anymore than city authorities can ensure the best retailers rent the best locations.

superk 16y ago

I think the funniest part is how he specializes in eyeglass wear. I don't know if there's anything to the sterotype of eyeglass wearers being more geeky or introverted (I wear glasses but I'm a small test group) - but it goes along perfectly with his role as the bully.

waterlesscloud 16y ago

I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Google needs to be laser focused on improving search result quality. Not preview pages, not restaurant ratings, not autonomous cars. Search result quality.