4 ms·

This law may work for it's intended purpose, but it's an unconscionable violation of property rights. I worry that our statistician's approach to legislation i

This law may work for it's intended purpose, but it's an unconscionable violation of property rights. I worry that our statistician's approach to legislation is hastening our times' abandonment of principle, and that we're sacrificing any particular individual's good to the good of faceless society.

vgoh1 8y ago
Why should property rights be the same for a commercial enterprise as someone's actual home? Not sure about unintended consequences on this one, but I would rather have a law be in place to allow more home ownership over more investment properties. As someone who grew up in a rental, and rented for the first 10 years, I see the benefits in home ownership.
yvoschaap2 8y ago
Actually the house owner doesn't own the ground the house is build on. But the city remains owner ("leasehold"). Hence they can add restrictions and terms before you are allowed to build/use the land.
pietrovismara 8y ago
This doesn't damage the big majority of individuals, unless you consider investment funds as "individuals".
neffy 8y ago
I worry that by the time the faceless particular individual´s have finished littering the entire planet because they can´t be bothered to care for anybody else, there won´t be a society.
bognition 8y ago
Except society isn’t faceless. It’s our friends and neighbors. It’s our cousins and coworkers. I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me.
- chrinic83 8y ago
  > I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. I'm not. I'll actually spend resources to inhibit others, pull the ladder up. So to speak. Good for you, though.
  - bellerose 8y ago
    Good for you being honest. You help deluded people realize the social community ideology isn’t necessarily a universal trait. Takes a lot of social conditioning to be unraveled to understand nobody really knows if the majority care about one another or are just concerned about themselves.
- Macross8299 8y ago
  >I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. All well and good. It's fine and commendable to personally sacrifice but when you start advocating for stripping property rights from other people to do it, it stops being a personal sacrifice and more of an imposition on others' freedom. What about unintended backfire consequences of this law: people who own a place and are traveling, unable to put their places on airbnb because of this law and thus leaving vacant houses anyways and constricting short-term rental supply?
- tathougies 8y ago
  > I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. But, this law does deny others the same economic opportunities as you. If you've lived in your older home and want to rent it out and move elsewhere, you are allowed to. However, your younger cousins who are buying just now (and thus considering newer homes) will not. Thus, this law simply protects the old guard while throwing the young people under the bus in the name of screwing the rich. Congratulations!
throwaway-hn123 8y ago
> unconscionable It's by no means that, and learn how to spell the fucking word before you use it incorrectly. Moron.
iagovar 8y ago
> faceless society. I'm sorry, but while I agree with you that it's a violation of property rights, and that concerns me, it isn't in hope of a good faceless society. I live in Spain, and the mediterranean coast is completely flooded with investors and foreigners buying property they don't live in, nor they rent for locals. Most of this places are now faceless, souless, tourist traps. My sister inherited a flat in Ibiza, just in the city center, and I wouldn't go to live there no matter what. Nice for a week visit before foreigners flood in, though. Same happend with Barcelona. Locals are being pushed out of the center and there has been years since it doesn't give the same feel as it used to, not to mention that everything feels designed as franchised for foreigners, expensive and increasingly soulless. They retain the architecture so that saves the look & feel of Barcelona, but it isn't anything similar of what used to be. Same with the andalusian coast. More and more towns get investor's money for building resorts and all kind of crap. I'm seeing this getting a little traction in my city, and I'm pretty worried. If that flood of money comes here to hit the property market, I won't be able to match the demand and I'll lose my lifestyle, and be forced to move somewhere else, at least to the outskirts of the city. So if my city council comes with a mechanism to prevent that, I'm gonna be on board, you can be sure of that.
- badpun 8y ago
  > If that flood of money comes here to hit the property market, I won't be able to match the demand and I'll lose my lifestyle, and be forced to move somewhere else, at least to the outskirts of the city. So if my city council comes with a mechanism to prevent that, I'm gonna be on board, you can be sure of that. You can buy a house now, instead of renting. This way, changes of property values are no longer a concern (unless property taxes are significant in Spain).
  - iagovar 8y ago
    I considered it many times, but I'd be very stretched out on money (I won't save that much compared to my current rent, and I'll have to put a lot of money upfront). Also, there's the problem of getting a mortgage, and prices being expensive for our salaries. Decent flats are +200k here. If the same flats were about ~150k I'd give it a thought, but 200k is too much for this place.
dr_dshiv 8y ago
I'm curious what philosophical school you are referring to... Who's principle are you referring to?

vgoh1 8y ago

Why should property rights be the same for a commercial enterprise as someone's actual home? Not sure about unintended consequences on this one, but I would rather have a law be in place to allow more home ownership over more investment properties. As someone who grew up in a rental, and rented for the first 10 years, I see the benefits in home ownership.

yvoschaap2 8y ago

Actually the house owner doesn't own the ground the house is build on. But the city remains owner ("leasehold"). Hence they can add restrictions and terms before you are allowed to build/use the land.

pietrovismara 8y ago

This doesn't damage the big majority of individuals, unless you consider investment funds as "individuals".

neffy 8y ago

I worry that by the time the faceless particular individual´s have finished littering the entire planet because they can´t be bothered to care for anybody else, there won´t be a society.

bognition 8y ago

Except society isn’t faceless. It’s our friends and neighbors. It’s our cousins and coworkers. I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me.

chrinic83 8y ago
> I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. I'm not. I'll actually spend resources to inhibit others, pull the ladder up. So to speak. Good for you, though.
- bellerose 8y ago
  Good for you being honest. You help deluded people realize the social community ideology isn’t necessarily a universal trait. Takes a lot of social conditioning to be unraveled to understand nobody really knows if the majority care about one another or are just concerned about themselves.
Macross8299 8y ago
>I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. All well and good. It's fine and commendable to personally sacrifice but when you start advocating for stripping property rights from other people to do it, it stops being a personal sacrifice and more of an imposition on others' freedom. What about unintended backfire consequences of this law: people who own a place and are traveling, unable to put their places on airbnb because of this law and thus leaving vacant houses anyways and constricting short-term rental supply?
tathougies 8y ago
> I’m more than willing to give up a bit of my extremely affluent lifestyle if it would genuinely help those around me who haven’t had the same economic opportunities as me. But, this law does deny others the same economic opportunities as you. If you've lived in your older home and want to rent it out and move elsewhere, you are allowed to. However, your younger cousins who are buying just now (and thus considering newer homes) will not. Thus, this law simply protects the old guard while throwing the young people under the bus in the name of screwing the rich. Congratulations!

throwaway-hn123 8y ago

> unconscionable It's by no means that, and learn how to spell the fucking word before you use it incorrectly. Moron.

iagovar 8y ago

> faceless society. I'm sorry, but while I agree with you that it's a violation of property rights, and that concerns me, it isn't in hope of a good faceless society. I live in Spain, and the mediterranean coast is completely flooded with investors and foreigners buying property they don't live in, nor they rent for locals. Most of this places are now faceless, souless, tourist traps. My sister inherited a flat in Ibiza, just in the city center, and I wouldn't go to live there no matter what. Nice for a week visit before foreigners flood in, though. Same happend with Barcelona. Locals are being pushed out of the center and there has been years since it doesn't give the same feel as it used to, not to mention that everything feels designed as franchised for foreigners, expensive and increasingly soulless. They retain the architecture so that saves the look & feel of Barcelona, but it isn't anything similar of what used to be. Same with the andalusian coast. More and more towns get investor's money for building resorts and all kind of crap. I'm seeing this getting a little traction in my city, and I'm pretty worried. If that flood of money comes here to hit the property market, I won't be able to match the demand and I'll lose my lifestyle, and be forced to move somewhere else, at least to the outskirts of the city. So if my city council comes with a mechanism to prevent that, I'm gonna be on board, you can be sure of that.

badpun 8y ago
> If that flood of money comes here to hit the property market, I won't be able to match the demand and I'll lose my lifestyle, and be forced to move somewhere else, at least to the outskirts of the city. So if my city council comes with a mechanism to prevent that, I'm gonna be on board, you can be sure of that. You can buy a house now, instead of renting. This way, changes of property values are no longer a concern (unless property taxes are significant in Spain).
- iagovar 8y ago
  I considered it many times, but I'd be very stretched out on money (I won't save that much compared to my current rent, and I'll have to put a lot of money upfront). Also, there's the problem of getting a mortgage, and prices being expensive for our salaries. Decent flats are +200k here. If the same flats were about ~150k I'd give it a thought, but 200k is too much for this place.

dr_dshiv 8y ago

I'm curious what philosophical school you are referring to... Who's principle are you referring to?