4 ms·

I think mostly everyone signing this knows this. But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I like the summary of @bootstrapcool on Twitter: “Go

I think mostly everyone signing this knows this. But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I like the summary of @bootstrapcool on Twitter: “God knows we've tried everything else.[...] A brief use of collective impotent fury and a tiny squeak into the black holes of our futures, but it's something.”

colinramsay 8y ago
Absolutely. I'm not positive about the outcome but I wouldn't berate people for trying, hence my comment "I can only hope that the pressure exerted from various angles (petition, march, sane MPs) will result in Parliament revoking Article 50". I've signed it myself!
frutiger 8y ago
> But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I get the sentiment (as a pro-Euro Brit), but surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way?
- ck425 8y ago
  The only reason the result wasn't chucked out due to fraud was that it was 'only' advisory. There are plenty of reasons to hold a second vote, beyond just I didn't like the first result.
- misnome 8y ago
  > surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way? Even ignoring all the illegality and fraud about the referendum, and ignoring that because it was advisory large portions of british citizens living abroad were prevented from having a say, and ignoring the arguments about 16-year-olds who it would be directly affecting because of the time lags, and ignoring the arguments around the fact that the process/success has been wildly, wildly different than promised, Ever since the referendum 50% of the population of the UK has had no representation in Parliament and government, whilst being endlessly parroted at that it is the "will of the people" and simultaneously being blamed for everything going predictably wrong. Democratic governments aren't supposed to have one vote then completely ignore the rest of the population.
  - warbucks 8y ago
    Why such an important decision wasn't required to be 60/40 to pass completely baffles me. Almost as much as how the referendum is treated as some iron-clad decision while passing at 51/49.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      Classic Remainer logic. If Leave had won 61/39 it'd have become "for such an important decision it should have been 75/25 to pass". The reason decisions like elections use a simple majority is that otherwise it'd be a small minority of people oppressing the will of the majority, which is unstable, and otherwise known as dictatorship.
  - thefounder 8y ago
    Nothing good happens when you cancel election results. See all these African countries with elections canceled...you better make sure the vote is not frauded in the first place. As far as I'm aware nobody got convicted(unlike in the U.S) so your fraud argument is weak even today. I can see a second referendum on no-deal vs May's deal though.
    - bookofgreg 8y ago
      Their fraud is well known amd documented. Here are some of the fines against the leave campaign for breaking the law. Vote Leave fined for election fraud. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 Leave.EU fined for election fraud. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096 Labour Leave fined for undeclared donations. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47623595 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47623595 Vote Leave fined for unsolicited texts using football lottery to gather details. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47623413 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47623413 Eldon Insurance and Leave.EU fined for data breaches when misusing company email data. https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-blogs/2019/02/ico-to-audit-data-protection-practices-at-leaveeu-and-eldon-insurance-after-fining-both-companies-for-unlawful-marketing-messages/ https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-bl...
cstross 8y ago
Speaking solely for myself: I can't get to London for the march on Saturday (I live in Scotland) and even if I could, I'm middle-aged, with dodgy knees and a bad foot. Signing the petition is therefore a proxy for more direct activism. (I note it has passed 750,000 signatures in well under 24 hours.)

colinramsay 8y ago

Absolutely. I'm not positive about the outcome but I wouldn't berate people for trying, hence my comment "I can only hope that the pressure exerted from various angles (petition, march, sane MPs) will result in Parliament revoking Article 50". I've signed it myself!

frutiger 8y ago

> But it’s not as though we’ve been listened to in any way. I get the sentiment (as a pro-Euro Brit), but surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way?

ck425 8y ago
The only reason the result wasn't chucked out due to fraud was that it was 'only' advisory. There are plenty of reasons to hold a second vote, beyond just I didn't like the first result.
misnome 8y ago
> surely the original referendum counts as being listened to in some way? Even ignoring all the illegality and fraud about the referendum, and ignoring that because it was advisory large portions of british citizens living abroad were prevented from having a say, and ignoring the arguments about 16-year-olds who it would be directly affecting because of the time lags, and ignoring the arguments around the fact that the process/success has been wildly, wildly different than promised, Ever since the referendum 50% of the population of the UK has had no representation in Parliament and government, whilst being endlessly parroted at that it is the "will of the people" and simultaneously being blamed for everything going predictably wrong. Democratic governments aren't supposed to have one vote then completely ignore the rest of the population.
- warbucks 8y ago
  Why such an important decision wasn't required to be 60/40 to pass completely baffles me. Almost as much as how the referendum is treated as some iron-clad decision while passing at 51/49.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    Classic Remainer logic. If Leave had won 61/39 it'd have become "for such an important decision it should have been 75/25 to pass". The reason decisions like elections use a simple majority is that otherwise it'd be a small minority of people oppressing the will of the majority, which is unstable, and otherwise known as dictatorship.
- thefounder 8y ago
  Nothing good happens when you cancel election results. See all these African countries with elections canceled...you better make sure the vote is not frauded in the first place. As far as I'm aware nobody got convicted(unlike in the U.S) so your fraud argument is weak even today. I can see a second referendum on no-deal vs May's deal though.
  - bookofgreg 8y ago
    Their fraud is well known amd documented. Here are some of the fines against the leave campaign for breaking the law. Vote Leave fined for election fraud. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 Leave.EU fined for election fraud. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44080096 Labour Leave fined for undeclared donations. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47623595 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47623595 Vote Leave fined for unsolicited texts using football lottery to gather details. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47623413 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47623413 Eldon Insurance and Leave.EU fined for data breaches when misusing company email data. https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-blogs/2019/02/ico-to-audit-data-protection-practices-at-leaveeu-and-eldon-insurance-after-fining-both-companies-for-unlawful-marketing-messages/ https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-bl...

cstross 8y ago

Speaking solely for myself: I can't get to London for the march on Saturday (I live in Scotland) and even if I could, I'm middle-aged, with dodgy knees and a bad foot. Signing the petition is therefore a proxy for more direct activism. (I note it has passed 750,000 signatures in well under 24 hours.)